Airtripper Extruder Skipping

Discussion in 'E3D-v6 and Lite6' started by Tiguu, Mar 13, 2014.

  1. Tiguu

    Tiguu Member

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    I had installed both the new airtripper Bowden extruder and E3D hotend on Prusa i3 and was able to print the first cube but not beyond 30 minutes of printing.

    The E-motor will 'skip' or not pushing the filament. My max feedrate setting is
    #define DEFAULT_MAX_FEEDRATE {200, 200, 1, 25}
    #define DEFAULT_AXIS_STEPS_PER_UNIT {79.00,79.00,4000.00,100.4127}

    I had explored changing the Vref (0.4 to 0.54V)and increased the feedrate in the firmware and it does not help.
    In fact while checking on the Vref and saw smoke coming of the RAMPS and I had burned the board. :(

    It felt like something is clogged in the hotend. As I was able to run the extruder without extruding filament. When It start skipping, I was able extrude without the filament and it was not skipping.

    I had tried having a fan blowing on the heat sink Pololu driver, and it does not help. I am printing PLA at 190 to 210C, with the hotend fan at 100%. Print will start after 5 minutes.

    It looks like once it past 30 minutes, the motor will skip

    Any help would be appreciated. The cube printed quality is great and I am frustrated it would not go beyond about 30 minutes.

    I am making sure the single hotend work before dual hotend. Everything is ready for dual hotend and replace the RAMPS board.
     
  2. Eaglezsoar

    Eaglezsoar Administrator

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    You didn't say but I assume that you are going to use a bowden system to put dual extruders on the I3.
    The best extruders I have seen are the ones based on the Kysan geared stepper. The gearing ratio is
    5.2:1 I believe. It is the same motor that Makergear uses in the Stepstruder. You may want to investigate
    using that type of stepper motor to make your extruder, I have seen it solve many problems such as yours.
    You can find the extruder printed parts on Thingiverse that use this motor. I also recommend the printed parts
    be made from ABS because it can handle heat better then PLA.
     
  3. Tiguu

    Tiguu Member

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    I am using Wantai 42BYGHW811 and all parts are in ABS.

    I read in this forum and Google+ 3D Printing of folks having problem with PLA, and with low E-steps, the suggestion is to have air blowing between the heat break and heater block. Although I have a fan blowing, it is not directing at this small gap.I will try this once I get the printed parts. I will also try
    1. Changing the extruder to Gear type
    2. Try printing with ABS which I do not have 1.75
     
  4. Eaglezsoar

    Eaglezsoar Administrator

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    Please let us know the results of your tests.
     
  5. Josh

    Josh Administrator
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    Hi Tiguu,

    Normally when it comes to jams the problem is cooling, but it sounds like you are cooling everything just fine. It also doesn't sound like there is a problem with your driver..

    Can you also just confirm a couple of details:
    • What thermistor is configured as in Marlin - having it set to the wrong type can cause the actual hot-end temperature to be lower than the measured temperature and thus jam.
    • What retraction settings are you using in your slicer?

    Thanks,
    Josh
     
  6. Tiguu

    Tiguu Member

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    The thermistor is set at #define TEMP_SENSOR_0 5. How do check the setting in the firmware?
    Could it be how I installed the sensor?

    The retraction is 4mm in Slic3r. I am using Bowden extrusion system
     
  7. Josh

    Josh Administrator
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    OK, your thermistor is set correctly and so should be reading the correct temp. The only other issue that there could be with the temperature measurement would be caused by you having taken the HotEnd over 300degC. Do you think this has ever happened?

    A retraction of 4mm is a sane value, how long is your Bowden tube? Does the problem go away if you reduce it?
     
  8. Tiguu

    Tiguu Member

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    I have not passed 300c and the Bowden tube is about 400mm. I had just re-attached the thermistor and it's still the same issue.
     
  9. Sanjay

    Sanjay Administrator
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    4mm for a 400mm bowden tube sounds a bit excessive to me, I would try reducing it to zero - seeing if the problem goes away (even if your prints are messy) then gradually increasing the retraction settings until you get clean prints.

    Let us know how you get on.
    Sanjay
     
  10. Tiguu

    Tiguu Member

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    Here is my test result

    I tried hand feeding with pushing and pulling the filament. I found that after several push and pull,
    the filament will get stuck and I had to pull it all the way out and restart again before I get smooth flow.
    I had some blog that the nozzle need to be seasoned. Hence, i added some olive oil on the filament.
    Immediately, i notice the smoothness while pushing and pulling. After several round, the filament is no
    longer stucked and I get smooth flow.

    I then tried with the Airtipper Extruder, and I was having some problem but did not want to troubleshoot further;
    maybe due to low E-Steps.

    I changed to Rich's geared extruder, I was able to print without the filament getting stucked.

    However, while printing I was not getting any filament flow and this was on the large print on the first layer.
    I noticed that the fan for the nozzle was not turned on for the first layer. On the next print, I ensured that
    the fan is always on.

    Success. I was able to print for 1.15 hrs. And for the next 3 prints each about 1 to 1.5 hrs.

    Hence, in summary, I assumed the PLA was stuck (in my case maybe due to the quality of PLA) and by
    seasoning with olive oil helped alot, and the nozzle fan is very important too.

    I will go back to the Airtipper has it much less parts to print for my dual hotend.

    For now, I am happy with the E3D nozzle and my print.

    PS. I had also changed the extraction length from 4mm to 0.5mm and print quality is good.
     
  11. Eaglezsoar

    Eaglezsoar Administrator

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    Congratulations on your remedies. Just for thought, Canola oil has also been used with good luck and is less expensive
    then the Olive oil. Some users have used the micro-cloth that they apply the oil to and make sure the filament runs through
    the cloth. No need to saturate to the point of oil dripping off the cloth, just enough to coat the filament. Your retraction,
    as Sanjay has indicated, was indeed too much for a bowden system. Good job in figuring out the correct value.
    All in all an excellent job, well done!
     
  12. Josh

    Josh Administrator
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    Hi Tiguu,

    How are you getting on with your now-seasoned nozzle?
     
  13. Tiguu

    Tiguu Member

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    Great. I have not had any problem since.

    I was able to print an extra Rich's Bowden gear extruder for my dual hotend and full set of wade direct gear extruder and cooling fan. I was able to print for 3 hrs followed by a remove and print again immediately for another 1hr.

    I have not gone back to the airtripper extruder yet due to time. Next goal is dual hotend.
     
  14. Eaglezsoar

    Eaglezsoar Administrator

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    It's good to hear about success stories, great job in getting everything working!
     
  15. Josh

    Josh Administrator
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    Cheers for the update! :)
     

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