Bed Adhesion

Discussion in 'BigBox General Chat' started by xreymason, Mar 7, 2016.

  1. xreymason

    xreymason Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2016
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    0
    So I'm trying to do my first print Benchy, and around the 15th layer the benchy releases from the heated bed. My bed is set to 60 degrees C, nozzle at 210 degrees C, and the fan seems to be running at 100% for the majority of the time. What can I do to solve whatever's causing this issue?
     
  2. Chase.Wichert

    Chase.Wichert Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2016
    Messages:
    774
    Likes Received:
    207
    Assuming PLA?

    You can set the first layer to be a little lower in S3D, you can set it to be Slower for the first layer.

    Have you cleaned your bed using rubbing alcohol, or acetone or something similar (when it's cold).
     
  3. xreymason

    xreymason Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2016
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't have S3D and also for some reason my computer wont even register that the SD card is plugged in so I can look at the gcode file(s). I did clean the bed, and yes PLA. But when it comes to the heated bed, if I have it at a lower tempature for the first layer and bring it up to 60 for the 2nd and so on layers. what would I set the bed to for a lower heat for the first layer? 50-55?
     
  4. Chase.Wichert

    Chase.Wichert Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2016
    Messages:
    774
    Likes Received:
    207
    I don't think a lower temp would help for the first layer, I believe you'd want to keep it the same throughout, I have read some other that have modified so the fan is at 75percent or so and have had luck, not sure how many have had luck with the 100 percent fan speed.
     
  5. xreymason

    xreymason Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2016
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'll try putting the fan at 180(70% of 255) and get back to you.
     
  6. Paul Seccombe

    Paul Seccombe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2015
    Messages:
    74
    Likes Received:
    27
    UHU glue stick it the answer. My first print on a clean bed came off after about 10mm but after adding glue stick I have had no problems.
     
  7. Chase.Wichert

    Chase.Wichert Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2016
    Messages:
    774
    Likes Received:
    207
    I read that PLA shouldn't need glue, but I typically use ABS.. So I don't know..
     
  8. Steven Burns

    Steven Burns Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    Messages:
    195
    Likes Received:
    55
    PLA generally does not need glue if the surface is spotless and alcohol cleaned. That said, UHU is still preferable. Use a very thin layer on the heated bed with the fan off for the first layer or two and then bump it up to 60-65%. The print should stick until the bed cools off and then the part should come off fairly easily.
     
    Chase.Wichert likes this.
  9. Mike Kelly

    Mike Kelly Volunteer

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2014
    Messages:
    444
    Likes Received:
    89
    Yeah what adhesive material are you using. Also a picture of the first layer will be very useful
     
  10. Spoon Unit

    Spoon Unit Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Messages:
    1,095
    Likes Received:
    322
    If you're struggling with bed adhesion, on layer one with PLA, I would consider redoing your bed levelling process. On the dual at least, you could make the paper a little more or less tighter during the levelling process to tune that. You could also increase flow for layer 1; obviously a pain in the ass via the dial, but doable. Can be a problem though. Actually that whole thought makes me wonder if you're slightly over extruding too. If that goes a little too far, you can end up the the model being fractionally higher than it should be and eventually the print head will knock it loose.
     
  11. xreymason

    xreymason Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2016
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    0
    This sounds like the most reasonable out of everything since its during the 14th-16th layers that it knocks it off. how would I solve for this? I used the math equation that they recommended. Mine ended up being 304 * 100 / 97 = 313.4

    Also as a side note, I don't know if this will affect it in this case but my z-offset is 0.9.
     
    #11 xreymason, Mar 8, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2016
  12. Spoon Unit

    Spoon Unit Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Messages:
    1,095
    Likes Received:
    322
    I used the maths, I got the number, I put the number in, and it still overextrudes for me. In the end, I now rely on tuning the flow. You can do this will printing by going into Tune > Flow. I actually print now with Flow tuned between 72 and 80. I could be stupid and have the maths wrong, but it's a pretty damn simple percentage calculation. In any case, that's what I do. I tune the flow. Give it a go. If you tune it too far down, you'll notice space between the lines during infill. Tweak the tune up or down until it's just perfectly filling the space.
     
  13. NinjaLars

    NinjaLars Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2016
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    3
    He means lower speed, not lower temp I believe. Anyway, try to print the first two layers in 25% speed '

     
  14. Chase.Wichert

    Chase.Wichert Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2016
    Messages:
    774
    Likes Received:
    207
    I think he was referring to a lower heat bed temperature for the first layer then heating it up for 2nd and beyond, atleast I assumed that based on the 50-55 then bringing it up to 60, which is typically what the heated bed is recommended at for PLA.

    But then again, 50-55mm/s then up to 60mm/s makes sense too, lol. Dang.
     
  15. Syko_Symatic

    Syko_Symatic Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    Messages:
    348
    Likes Received:
    78
    Bumping this old thread as I am really struggling with bed adhesion with E3D everyday PLA. I have been using rigid.ink which was great, but expensive. I just can't get this stuff to stick. I have tried hotter and colder at the hot end, slower print speed (50%) re-done the bed level (dual) but still no luck. It's continually pulling up the first skirt run when doing the second. Anyone have any ideas?

    E3D Everyday PLA (Sky Blue)
    Hot End: 200
    Bed: 70
    Print Speed: 50mm/s (first layer 50%)
    Fan: Off (until 3rd layer)

    I have tried cleaning the bed and using a glue stick but no luck.

    It's killing me!!
     
  16. PsyVision

    PsyVision Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    Messages:
    798
    Likes Received:
    248
    So I use bed at 60, hotend 190 and the same speeds. Clean bed its great but I am a fan of the missus hairspray (on the heated bed!!)

    What's your first layer like, really high? Really suquished? What's your first layer height and width settings?

    Edit: This is with E3D PLA - I've pretty much been printing everyday with it, lol!
     
  17. Syko_Symatic

    Syko_Symatic Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    Messages:
    348
    Likes Received:
    78
    I have been changing the first layer height but it currently sits at 80% as that was coming out nice and squashed. Width is 125%. A lower bed temp is something I have yet to try. Which hairspray is recommended, I have seen a few online but as you are in the UK I should be able to find the brand you're using.
     
  18. PsyVision

    PsyVision Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    Messages:
    798
    Likes Received:
    248
    Try 100% height and 125 width. I think it's l'oreal but I'm not sure it matters too much.
     
  19. Henry feldman

    Henry feldman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2015
    Messages:
    969
    Likes Received:
    389
    I've been using the Wolfbite Nano, Nitro products, and they have worked amazingly. When hot the stuff is really, really stuck down, but when the bed cools, just picks right up. Yeah, they aren't super cheap, but they are easy and work with the appropriate plastics (and my time is worth something... and failed prints aren't!)
     
  20. Syko_Symatic

    Syko_Symatic Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    Messages:
    348
    Likes Received:
    78
    .... Because she's worth it?

    I think my significant other has some tr├Ęsemme hanging around upstairs... I will ask her!

    Method? Take the bed off and apply a coat or two or three?
     

Share This Page