IDEAS Bed upgrade

Discussion in 'Guides, Mods, and Upgrades' started by Stian Indal Haugseth, Jun 1, 2016.

  1. Stian Indal Haugseth

    Stian Indal Haugseth Well-Known Member

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    I find the topic interesting enough to start a separate thread to avoid clutter in the Titan Dual Direct Drive Design thread.

    @JesperJuul and @Alex9779 have gotten themselves some nice milled aluminium (I always want to write the simplified US word aluminum) beds from clever3d.de. Read Alex post here.

    So... what's the optimal heat bed for the BB? And how to mount it. I like the concept of magnets but they do not like heat according to @Stefan. Here you can read about what temperatures we can expect the magnets to endure. Most magnets from ebay only handle 80degC before they degrade.

    I want an aluminum heat bed with magnet mount. I will be looking for some N45SH or N40UH magnets to handle >120degC
     
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  2. mike01hu

    mike01hu Well-Known Member

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    Yes, they are fine provided the coupling is adequate, also remember that these will be at the corners and edges so some cooling will have occurred, even with aluminium and it is the Curie temperature that you need to worry about for total degradation. If you are using filaments that require those sort of bed temperatures there MAY be minor degradation if you run a lot hotter than the working temperature but you are not likely to do that. As I said before, if you get to degradation temperatures, call the fire service:eek:

    I am not convinced that a magnetically retained bed is a good idea as the coupling distance is quite large unless there are modified corner posts to retain the bed's horizontal integrity, also it might make a reversible bed more difficult if the magnets are permanently mounted, as levitation is not good for bed levelling:); I'll wait for others reports but I am attracted (sorry)!
     
  3. Stian Indal Haugseth

    Stian Indal Haugseth Well-Known Member

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    I have e-mailed clever3d about milling slots for magnets under the bed to glue them in. This way I can have magnets a few places in the middle of the bed to hold up the PCB where it sags and around the edges to keep it in place.

    25mm x 6mm x 2mm (N45SH) (150degC operation temp) should give slightly more than 0,5kg pull with 3mm distance in air. Haven't masured PCB + cork thickness. Do you guys think this would be enough pull to keep it in place and hold up the PCB?

    I can not use the bed on both sides. I need twice as many magnets as shown in the drawing.

    A little overkill? Maybe some bigger ones and fewer in the middle.
    upload_2016-6-1_16-56-29.png
     
  4. JesperJuul

    JesperJuul Well-Known Member

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    Whoooaaah way overkill in my opinion. I'm going to use one countersunk 15x3mm in each corner on posts. That shold be more that enough. You have to remember that your nozzle is not suppose to poke your bed around and the bed is only moving up and down so you really dont need much. With the setup you propose i'm sure you will offset the bed just by taking it of.

    I'm trying two routes. The magnet solution and and one where the PEI aluplate is the same dimensions as the PCB with a countersunk hole in each corner and then i will just screw it down. This gives me full bed and then im going to use my other aluplate with chamfered corners to experiment with a magnet solution.
     
  5. Stian Indal Haugseth

    Stian Indal Haugseth Well-Known Member

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    Hehe :D
    Summing up the magnets I might bend the plate when I would lift it off. I need to do some weight tests before deciding on a magnet size and the numbers. For the magnet I linked it would probably be enough to have one in each corner and one or two in center. But I would want to make sure the bed gets pulled up snug to the alu plate. I'm not that worried about the place being pushed around.

    I need a CNC mill :cool:
     
  6. Chase.Wichert

    Chase.Wichert Well-Known Member

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    I have the Shapeoko 3 and it is awesome, I think I might machine my own.
     
  7. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    Oh cool I am still searching but "German engineering" is so expensive, the machines I found so far from Germans are too expensive for me... Still I need a real workshop when I get one of those...
     
  8. Chase.Wichert

    Chase.Wichert Well-Known Member

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    lol, I had lots of problems with it when I first got it, static electricity buildup or surges in power do to other things turning on and off on the same circuit would disconnect it. But, they sent me an upgraded control board, and no more problems. They are a great company, carbide3D, I also have a Nomad Pro 883 machine sitting next to my shapeoko
     
  9. Stian Indal Haugseth

    Stian Indal Haugseth Well-Known Member

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    I need a new house or raise my garage roof with 1,5m before getting anything of that size. I'm still not sure my wife will let me keep the BB ;) She was surprised it was SOOO large :eek:
     
  10. Stian Indal Haugseth

    Stian Indal Haugseth Well-Known Member

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    Now you're just showing of! Just a bit jealous :oops:
     
  11. Chase.Wichert

    Chase.Wichert Well-Known Member

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    Lol, they were critical to my kickstarter project.
     
  12. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    Ah yeah, wish I had something "critical" to justify all the stuff I buy...
     
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  13. Chase.Wichert

    Chase.Wichert Well-Known Member

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    It's great... however, the amount of work kickstarters are, might not be worth it. lol
     
  14. mike01hu

    mike01hu Well-Known Member

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    Alex, the justification is your own wellbeing, a real "critical" project. Join the club:D
     
  15. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    My 3D printes are "accepted", I printed some useful stuff for the household and to repair some toys for the kids.
    I printed some stuff for my RC helis and for my farm so my wife is good with that. I have my separate room under the roof which is also my office (I have a home office contract) so she doesn't complain about all that stuff which is in there (4 computers, 3 servers (not in that room actually) and a lot of stuff for the printers and helis) but a CNC machine wouldn't fit in there ;)
     
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  16. Chase.Wichert

    Chase.Wichert Well-Known Member

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    Lol, I have so much crap in my office, we just bought a new house, (not with kickstarter money mind you) lol. But there was a spare room upstairs which I set up shop, and I spilled over into the play room, with solder station, 3d printer station, a urethan resin casting station, cutting station, and assembly station, along with the router and mill, and the computer desk. I just recently upgraded my 6 tb nas to a 12tb synology nas. I love that thing it is about 1/6 the size of my old one, and produces like 1/4 the heat of that one. Anyway it's really tight. Now she is in support of us building a "large" shop in the backyard for all of my stuff so she can have her house back. Woot! So that will be happening after the kickstarter is over.
     
  17. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    Maybe with the money from the job where you have time the whole day to design a dual Titan carriage? :p

    I am planning to upgrade my self-made FreeNAS nas from currently 8TB to 24TB or 36TB...

    But we are really getting off-topic...:oops:
     
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  18. Chase.Wichert

    Chase.Wichert Well-Known Member

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    Shhh.... don't tell anyone.

    Yeah, that's funny because this thread was spawned from getting off-topic on the dual titan thread.

    Anyway.... I read how that dichloromethane is used to dissolve PEI and then you coat the aluminum with it. However you are supposed to anodize the aluminum somehow to get open pores on the aluminum that the pei will fill up. I am going to have a lot of scrap PEI left over from maching PEI beds, maybe I can get some dicholoromethane and a gas mask and try it.... sometime this year.
     
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  19. Stian Indal Haugseth

    Stian Indal Haugseth Well-Known Member

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    Interesting. So it would be possible to reapply PEI. How nasty is dicholoromethane and where can it be acquired?
     
  20. Chase.Wichert

    Chase.Wichert Well-Known Member

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    I think it's pretty nasty stuff. It's poisonous, so adequate ventilation and respirator are a must
     

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