IN DEVELOPMENT BigBox Dual X Carriages (Direct)

Discussion in 'Guides, Mods, and Upgrades' started by Greg_The_Maker, Oct 13, 2016.

  1. Miasmictruth

    Miasmictruth Well-Known Member

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    I am still working up to making the jump, but I can say this this much. The big advantage is you don't have to worry about the second nozzle running into the print. To get dual printing working both nozzles have to be at the exact same height, its not unheard of the second nozzle running into and ruining the print. If you have any rod sag, this can be very difficult to compensate for. The second issues is, the nozzle on standby can dribble plastic onto the print and deposit plastic where you don't want it.
     
  2. Spoon Unit

    Spoon Unit Well-Known Member

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    Ram-purging is an attempt to solve this by retracting the filament back out of the melt-zone. For me, the removal of height alignment is the primary benefit there and the ability to remove a ram-purge cycle should save quite a lot of filament on some prints (I'm thinking of the dual frog).
     
  3. AndyVirus

    AndyVirus Well-Known Member

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    Bigbox Dual Hybrid 1.1 was my first entry into anything 3D printing. I wanted to understand everything from the ground up so this looked like the best option. I soon found once I got to printing that even after days and days of calibration and getting to a good point, one tiny mistake can be catastrophic, tiny as in wiping the bed too hard which then threw the bed of slightly making first layer a nightmare and with the second nozzle on the head now marginally higher or lower as it passes over a larger object.... scrape.... Thats with out getting into dual prints, hot end oozing, hot nozzel wiping the part etc etc. And dont get me started on 1 direct 1 bowden fed... :)

    Now all the above can be mitigated (dual direct, finesse, hotend idle temps and so forth) and I got to a good place but it took so much time and effort.

    When the IDEX project started i decided to jump in face first (feet first is for wimps) as I would be following a project from the start not joining when all the hard work was finished so i could follow along and get a full understanding of the pain and triumphs.

    I did not have access to another printer so it really was an all-in situation once i had printed the parts.

    Luckily for me Greg's initial deign was fully working, at least in the sense that i could print after 2 days of re-wiring and routing cables. The cooling fan was the only real let down, its crippled me. Bridging just was no longer an option, Alex came up with a design which i am using to this day and i have very few issues now.

    So back to the point/question: "has IDEX made a significant difference in your ability to print things"

    For me i would say yes, a thousand times yes. I can print dual colours, I can print with scaffold for support structures and i can print interiors with a different material to exteriors. I can print faster more reliably than I could before and most importantly my confidence has grown with my machine.

    I did in the end make the switch to DuetWifi and DueX_5 and that has really been the cherry on the cake. I have way more "trust" in my machine now, with marlin i never knew what the hell it was going to do next. The panic rush for the power button has pretty much stopped now with Duet. It is incredibly quieter and something i was not expecting: Extrusion is more consistent, i get less clogs ( I have had no clogs/jams with Duet ), why this is? Smother flow? Better tuned steppers? No idea, just my amateur observation and make no mistake, i am an utter amateur. Ill bet a well tuned Rumba with correctly tuned drivers and a bugless Marlin could be just as good, but i could not do it and boy did i try and try and try. It was functional but was not a smooth ride, IDEX or Hybrid. Again just 1 persons opinion.

    I knew from the start that this machine was not going to be "it just works" solution but as a shipped Hybrid I would have had full support from E3D, I do not expect the same support now, this is an on going project (though it does seem t have gone dormant for a while now) and with parts sourced here there and everywhere I would not expect E3D to support me now other than best efforts. So if support other than forums is anyones desire then do not jump in just yet. Otherwise for me this project has made a frustrating machine an fully usable tool.
     
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  4. Björn

    Björn Well-Known Member

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    Ok, this is it, I'm going all in now
     
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  5. Miasmictruth

    Miasmictruth Well-Known Member

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    Sorry if I have missed it somewhere but have you released your modified parts for IDEX somewhere?
     
  6. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    On Onshape are the designs for various configurations...
     
  7. W1EBR.Gene

    W1EBR.Gene Well-Known Member

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    Greg and Alex, do you think the Y axis linear bearing mounts (O.D.) could be made 2mm larger? If yes, then a compact linear bearing and 10mm y axis rods could be used instead of the 8mm rods.

    Might this also work for the x axis rods/bearings?
     
  8. Miasmictruth

    Miasmictruth Well-Known Member

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    Ah I guess I should get on, onshape. Had a discussion with one of their developers once and he was a bit snotty to me, so I have been avoiding it. Not sure why they even contacted me or what it was about anymore. But I suppose I shouldn't let one person ruin a whole site for me heh :/

    Thanks
     
  9. W1EBR.Gene

    W1EBR.Gene Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for such a thoughtful response!

    Do you have a list of what you kept from Greg's base design and what you picked up from Alex?
     
  10. W1EBR.Gene

    W1EBR.Gene Well-Known Member

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    Alex, are the supports that you have included in the x carriage version 3.3 meant to be printed in Scaffold?
     
  11. Spoon Unit

    Spoon Unit Well-Known Member

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    You should. If you're like me, you'll hate it for a while and then love it. Or maybe you can skip the hate step :)
     
  12. Miasmictruth

    Miasmictruth Well-Known Member

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    Started poking at it yesterday, is there a way to add certain creators to a watch list or anything. Or a way to see everything a creator has listed publicly?
     
  13. AndyVirus

    AndyVirus Well-Known Member

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    I did not but from memory I used everything from Greg's initial design.

    The bits that are a must from Alex's Onshape are:

    • Left hand side Y-Carridge (otherwise the Nema14 Motor will stick out too far and not allow the bigbox lid to go back on)
    • Left and Right cooling fans - I could not get anything to print successfully with Gregs design other than ABS that did not need it
    • Wipes for the front - i did not want to mess about moving the bed forward
    I did however use Alex's left X-Caridge/extruder for the thiner wall between motor and Titan though this causes you to loose a nut to hold the fan on with. This was also so i could keep the IR Z probe on the head for Automatic Mesh Levelling. I messed up though and printed the wrong one so i shorten his z prob mount and mounted directly under the carriage and not wedged as it was designed :) My dumb but saved me printing a whole new x carriage.

    Drag chain was the hardest to get hold of, in the end i printed one, it sucked but worked (I must tune tolerances more carefully) and in the end E3D had one for £10+VAT and shipping which i went for.
     
  14. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    Yes...
     
  15. Spoon Unit

    Spoon Unit Well-Known Member

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    Doesn't look like it. Would be good feedback to give. There's a feedback button in the application.
     
  16. Miasmictruth

    Miasmictruth Well-Known Member

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    Thanks I will, is there any accepted and adopted design for IDEX or is everyone still on various versions? I see Greg's new design and I am torn not sure I want to go bowden, but it might work until as a community we decided to do a frame expansion.
     
  17. Julian64

    Julian64 Well-Known Member

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    Hmm Haven't seen Greg post for a while on the dual direct design. Does anyone have any idea when a kit will be available or the mirror titans?
     
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  18. Paul Begley

    Paul Begley Well-Known Member

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    in light of recent news, I personally doubt a kit will be available, not from E3D anyway. Additionally i interpreted the post about the dual bowden design as the “better” option, when considering loss of build volume. I took from that, for the moment anyway, any efforts are towards the Bowden.

    I saw something about the mirror titan, i think it’s due soon.
     
  19. Greg_The_Maker

    Greg_The_Maker Administrator
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    We have no plans to release a kit for either the Direct or Bowden IDEX systems. All the components are readily available online.

    The Mirrored Titan is coming and will be available soon.
     
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  20. Henry feldman

    Henry feldman Well-Known Member

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    What would be great @greg would be an explicit BOM for the build. Looking through 24 pages of posts, and trying to figure out what is "still true" is pretty hard....
     
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