SOLVED Calibrating E steps

Discussion in 'Calibration, Help, and Troubleshooting' started by Alex9779, Apr 18, 2016.

  1. mike01hu

    mike01hu Well-Known Member

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    Consistency is the issue for me too and I can't think of a reason, because the hob does not appear to slip. I have reverted to extrusion flow rate adjustment!
     
  2. jet

    jet Well-Known Member

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    Dual Hybrid, Using the Titan instructions to set my E steps and have run afoul of only one setting in the flash, grrr.

    My problem, however, is setting the E steps for Bowden. This is my first Bowden so maybe I'm just doing something wrong...

    The direct extruder used 102mm instead of 100mm, so that was an easy fix (E = 442.7). The Bowden extruder, however, is running at almost half. I print 100mm, it only prints 50mm. It's repeatable and I'm using the same PLA as I used for direct, but it surprises me that it's almost exactly %50...

    E100 F200 prints 50mm, so the E is 912

    Another print with
    M92 E912
    E100 F200

    and it can't keep up with the feed rate, skips pretty often. Tried
    E100 F150
    and only heard two skips, and printed 93mm instead of 100mm. Some more arithmetic and now I get that my needed steps are 490. Huh? They were 912 in the previous test.

    Dropped down to
    E100 F100
    and it printed 100mm

    Is the extrusion F-rate that different for Bowden? If so, I'm curious as to why.
     
    #102 jet, Jun 16, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2016
  3. Stefan

    Stefan Well-Known Member

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    Normally you do the e-step thing with no hot end. For bowden this is simple just remove the tube on one end.
    What you want to know is how much step are needed to move the filament without resistence
    In this case the feed rate does not really matter except you use a very high one.
    As @Alex9779 noticed and wrote in this thread I think, F200 is way to fast with hot end, use more something like F50 then the it get realistic...

    Most reprap guides and the (reference?) from Triffid Hunter have a first step like "Remove Hot End..."
    And the "do not waste filament" part, for me, is not the real reason but a nice side effect. I mean who reallz cares about 10 cm filament.

    To the 50% thing... did you change the micro stepping or what stepper (resolution 0.9 or 1.8 ) do you use?
     
  4. fpex

    fpex Well-Known Member

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    I have the same issue with the titan bowden, it extrudes 1/3 3.3cm .... the titan direct is almost perfect, 9.8cm
     
  5. jet

    jet Well-Known Member

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    I'm used to doing it with the hotend on to measure effective rate, but that's with older cupcake/mendel extruders. I'll try again with just the stepper. As far as I know I have the same motor on each extruder coming from the Titan kits. I'll check to see if they have the same part numbers.
     
  6. Mark_T

    Mark_T Well-Known Member

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    PsyVision likes this.
  7. PsyVision

    PsyVision Moderator
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    Just checked mine - ordered my Titans on release - and they are both the small toothed ones! Will ask for some replacements
     
  8. fpex

    fpex Well-Known Member

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    I did the same but no reply yet.
    Pity, once again the BB is down :-( I am rather unlucky, what is next .... meting nozzles :)
     
  9. jet

    jet Well-Known Member

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    FWIW, the E3D instructions say to do the calibration test with the nozzle on and set at 210C: http://wiki.e3d-online.com/wiki/Your_First_Print#Calibrating_The_Filament

    I checked my gears during assembly and I'm pretty certain mine have the right teeth. When I lower the feed rate down to 100 or so I get a 100mm extrusion with no wacky offset numbers, but I'm still going to take them apart and check the part #s and that I didn't somehow swap in a spare motor from my mendel box by accident.
     
  10. fpex

    fpex Well-Known Member

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    I have problems with the one mounted Bowden. But I fear that when i got to other filaments, the direct will also suffer form the wrong hobb
     
  11. jet

    jet Well-Known Member

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    Took apart the Titan and verified that I have the "good" hob. Tested the Bowden going from the input side to the feed tube with no resistance from the extruder:

    M92 E456
    G1 E100 F200

    moved 58mm of filament, using the extruder I get about 56mm of filament.

    On the off chance it's a problem with the flash, here's what I'm running:
    M115
    Recv: FIRMWARE_NAME:Marlin 1.1.0-RC6-12-ga41afa8 SOURCE_CODE_URL:https://github.com/Alex9779/Marlin_BigBox_Dual PROTOCOL_VERSION:1.0 MACHINE_TYPE:BigBox Dual EXTRUDER_COUNT:2 UUID:3442baa1-08ee-435b-8a10-99d185bd43b8
     
  12. jet

    jet Well-Known Member

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    With F100 and F50 and no resistance I get ~57mm. I'm going to see if there's something wonky with the wiring.
     
  13. jet

    jet Well-Known Member

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    Looking at the firmware instructions and I found the problem:

    "0.9° Stepper Motors Non-Titan Hybrid Extruders using the larger 0.9° Stepper Motors set the Steps-Per-MM to 304. Titan Hybrid Extruders using the larger 0.9° Stepper Motors set the Steps-Per-MM to 852. 1.8° Stepper Motors Non-Titan Hybrid Extruders using the smaller 1.8° Stepper Motors set the Steps-Per-MM to 152. Titan Hybrid Extruders using the smaller 1.8° Stepper Motors set the Steps-Per-MM to 417.5."

    The BigBox Dual came with two stepper motors for the extruders and the Titan each came with a motor. Someone suggested using the lighter of the two for E0 since it moves, and that's a 1.8 degree stepper. I used the bigger for E1 since weight doesn't matter, and what do you know, it's a .9 degree stepper.
     
  14. Mark_T

    Mark_T Well-Known Member

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    That would do it...

    Current 'best practice' I believe for the 1.1 Dual kits shipping with Titans is to use the -200 motors that used to go on the Z axis for the two extruders and use the original -400 extruder motors for the Z axis.

    Using one of each will get confusing :)
     
  15. fpex

    fpex Well-Known Member

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    Using one of each is not supported by the firmware, they need to be the same. I think you can play with the rumba to mix motors but not on the x azis
     
  16. Stian Indal Haugseth

    Stian Indal Haugseth Well-Known Member

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    Did a e step calibration on E1 with 0,4 nozzle with xt. Upped hot end to 255 for good measure and F50. Stock 1.0.

    Ended up with 291.8 from 304.
     
  17. Digi2life

    Digi2life Active Member

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    Just wanted to say thanks to everyone in this thread! I was fighting with e step calibration on my direct Titan and slowing the feedrate proved to be the cure. I have my direct extruder on the right side of my hybrid dual, so T0 is Bowden left and T1 is direct right.

    Here's the magical script of deliverance:
    G21 ; set to millimeters
    G90 ; use absolute positioning
    T1 ; select extruder 1
    G92 E0 ; zero the extrusion distance
    G1 E100 F50 ; extrude 100mm very slowly
    G92 E0 ; zero the extrusion distance
     

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