Damage Due to Print Speed?

Discussion in 'Calibration, Help, and Troubleshooting' started by JohnEsc, May 22, 2016.

  1. JohnEsc

    JohnEsc Well-Known Member

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    Let's see if I'm beginning to understand this... Is this photo due to the result of me using the default print speed of 50mm/sec for a print that involves something so delicate/intricate? Should I have changed the print speed to 30mm/sec for the entire print or would it have been sufficient to setup a S3D multi-process with the default speed 50mm/sec for the bottom sphere half and then used another process with the similar settings but with a slower print speed of 20-30mm/sec for when the ropes begin separating from the sphere at about 50mm height? Thoughts...
    [​IMG]
     
  2. R Design

    R Design Well-Known Member

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    Generally it looks pretty good.

    (And the layers on the rounded part below look much improved... since your upgrades!)

    My guess would be that the damage was caused by some kind of blog or ridge on that particular column, which then caught the nozzle progressively which then caused what we can see.

    Question is then why was there a blob or a ridge there?

    Is there any explanation in the slicer (like was that column different to the others in some way)?

    Or was it a random thing?

    In my experience speed helps to avoid blobs and things and slowing down to make them worse (more time for oozing)....

    Just some thoughts. ;-)

    ps when printing a new kind of part for the first time I find it invaluable to stick around to find out how the printer deals with the various features. Then I can tweak settings for the second iteration (both of slicing and possibly of CAD).
     
  3. Old_Tafr

    Old_Tafr Well-Known Member

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    If you look very closely at the other strands that didn't distort, both left and right of the offending one, and if you number the strands 1 through 9 with the offending one being five... and if you take the major kink in five as the reference point....

    One and two have a slight fault lower than five.

    Three and four have one or two faults above the ref point

    Six and seven have faults around the same place.

    All the faults seem to start where the strands depart from the solid round main body, essentially the strands are uniform where they touch the main body and get worse as they get further away from it.

    Six has an obvious gap at the same level as the ref point on five.

    So even though the bed temp and nozzle temp are assumed the same throughout, something affects the strands once they leave the protection of the body.

    Maybe they are for some reason not strong enough, filament too hot/soft, simply not enough support to hold them in place. Five does seem to have bent just as the stand moves away from the main body, although admittedly that could have been later once the strand got knocked about.
     
    #3 Old_Tafr, May 22, 2016
    Last edited: May 22, 2016
    JohnEsc likes this.
  4. JohnEsc

    JohnEsc Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if I used a 2nd process that would switch from 10% infill to 100% infill just before the ropes let go of the sphere if that would help with the strength/quality of the ropes. Had a similar issue when printing the posts for my lighthouse balcony.
     
  5. mike01hu

    mike01hu Well-Known Member

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    It will depend on how many perimeters you have as infill will only occur where the perimeters leave a space, but there is no harm in switching off infill for this section.
     
  6. R Design

    R Design Well-Known Member

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    I think you have netfabb?

    So maybe you can cut out a section of rope and practice printing it by itself in a number of different ways?
     
  7. JohnEsc

    JohnEsc Well-Known Member

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    So I setup 2 processes in S3D and just as the ropes were starting I switched the settings to 30mm/sec and based on @mike01hu 's info I used 5 perimeter shells with just the 10% infill (after running a number of G-Code File previews) that seemed like it would work the best. The result is stellar. May print the bottom half of the hot air balloon again to see if it will work the same with the numerous thinner ropes that model has.
    [​IMG]
     
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  8. JohnEsc

    JohnEsc Well-Known Member

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    Gave the bottom part another try based on what I learned from the advice here and was able to successfully print it with great looking ropes:
    [​IMG]
    Project completed: http://www.thingiverse.com/make:223394
     
  9. mike01hu

    mike01hu Well-Known Member

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    Superb!!! I think we'll be turning to you for advice in the future!!
     
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  10. Ray

    Ray Well-Known Member

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    I hadn't thought about splitting a print into different heights with differing settings before, I am actually just trying to print this myself, so in S3D I have setup 2 Processes (Solid and Ropes), then set the following:

    Basket:

    Layer -> Top Solid Layers = 3
    Layer -> Bottom Solid Layers = 3
    Layer -> Outline Perimeter Shells = 3
    Advanced -> Stop printing at height = 18mm
    Other -> Default Printing Speed = 50mm/s

    Ropes:

    Layer -> Top Solid Layers = 3
    Layer -> Bottom Solid Layers = 0 (to stop an additional solid layer being put in when the ropes section starts)
    Layer -> Outline Perimeter Shells = 5
    Advanced -> Start printing at height = 18mm
    Other -> Default Printing Speed = 50mm/s

    My question, is there anything that can be done in S3D to prevent the the solid layer being created from the Basket process having a Top Solid Layers set to 3?

    My only thought here is to actually have 3 layers, one that covers up to the inner bottom of the basket, then the middle process that covers the basket walls, and then the ropes.

    Unless I am missing an S3D feature that allows you to specify where one process stops and the other starts (essentially splitting the model) but as it is a continuation of the print that it does not re-apply things such as top/bottom layers/shells?.

    This is more of a generic question as I realise that at the point where I split the 2 processes there wouldn't be any solid layers created.
     
    #10 Ray, May 25, 2016
    Last edited: May 25, 2016
  11. JohnEsc

    JohnEsc Well-Known Member

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    @Ray I followed the steps described on this S3D page exactly: https://www.simplify3d.com/support/tutorials/different-settings-for-different-regions-of-a-model/

    I would recommend adjusting the perimeter shells for the ropes and use the Preview > Play/Pause button to see what works best. I found that 5 perimeter shells worked best for the basket ropes with the infill @ 10% and I used the Start & Stop height switch at 15mm, I used the View > Cross Section to make sure the layers created a good foundation basically before beginning the print of the ropes.
     
  12. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    No, you can set to 0 but that could have side effects.
    This is a problem I have too when using multiple processes on one part.
    The top and bottom solid layers are for each process individually and are there created where the process starts and stops, but in addition on every bottom or top surface.
    So you always get maybe unwanted solid layers where one process ends and the other starts but deactivating the top solid layers of the bottom process and the bottom layers of the top process is not always possible.

    Imagine a stair:
    Stair1.PNG
    Step height is 25mm.
    So I make two processes one up until 50mm the other one starting at 50mm:
    Stair2.PNG Stair3.PNG
    As you can see at the process change level there are unnecessary solid layers inserted.
    But deactivating the top solid layers for the bottom process will result in this:
    Stair4.PNG
    You can see the top surfaces of the bottom stairs are not filled.

    Disabling the bottom layers for the top process would have no effect on this model but on overhangs and bridges...

    So actually for this model I cannot get rid of the solid layers in the part completely, for other models it is impossible, there is no setting to just disable solid layers on the very top of a process or disable solid layers inside the model if the is material right above...
     
  13. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    BTW remember the "First Layer" settings on the top process! If you print with the settings you usually use to print on a bed this does not look good in the middle of a part.
    So basically if I do this I change the settings to 100% height, 100% width and 100% speed for the first layer of the top and following processes...
     
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  14. JohnEsc

    JohnEsc Well-Known Member

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    Awesome info as usual @Alex9779 Forgot to mention the First Layer height adjustment. I watched this video and really helped learn the steps similar to watch you mentioned here:
     
  15. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    Ya but obviously the multi-process feature is not thought to the end...
    I tried it several time but the solid layers inside the part are killing the outer contour, they shrink more than the other layers...
     
  16. Ray

    Ray Well-Known Member

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    @Alex9779 Cheers for the heads up regarding the first layer height, I had indeed left that at less than 100%

    Just looking through that video now, I have actually posted a similar question on the Simplify3D forum and depending on the answer will add it to their feature request list.
     

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