COMPLETE Dual Titan IDEX - another try

Discussion in 'Guides, Mods, and Upgrades' started by Alex9779, May 14, 2017.

  1. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    Here is the result of the thread:
    https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2350827

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    I wanted to share and collect some opinions on what I had in my mind since January and what @Björn did by converting @Chase.Wichert 's design.
    My goal was a little different one because I had problems wiring the original design, was hard to get that done, and the new IDEX looks much more challenging to wire.
    Also I had heat problems especially when printing PLA because the hotends are so enclosed.

    So this is what I am designing. I just post an eDrawings file for now. When I did some test prints and if all works fine as I want it to then I will post files for printing too...
     

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    #1 Alex9779, May 14, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2017
  2. potti5

    potti5 Well-Known Member

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    this is intresting. Only thing what i think is that x axis belt line. It will be really down compared to y axis bearing and x rods. It can cause somekind twisting when tightening x belts. That is happening already with @Chase design if tightening too much.

    edit. Is possible move that y-axis belt top to y axis rods and get more space down? Then those motors can be upper.
     
  3. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    I am still tweaking and I missed the belt mounts for the Y belt...
    But the Y belt idlers are a problem because of the increased width of the Y carriages. They move the X motor down which moves the belts down... But still I think they are not as low as in Chases design...
     
  4. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    I managed to squeeze additional 4mm between X motor rod and X rods. Distance is now ~22.4mm.
    I could get another 4-5mm I think if I would make a loop at the Y belt ends to place the mount where the belts get fixed a little more up.
    I tried to mount the Y belt not on the bottom but on the top but unfortunately the distance between the upper belt loop and the Y rod bearing is too small to get the fixing screw for the belt in, it would hit the bearing.
    No sure yet if I'll to that change. I wanna see if I can go with my current belts and the current setup. If I have to use new belts then I might change it to get that additional 4-5mm to decrease the distance to about ~17mm between X motor rod and X rods...

    One thing I already checked, with this design I could use NEMA14 motors with a max body length of about 57mm, the stronges from Stepper Online have 52mm body. Rated 40Ncm, a lot more than 18Ncm of the current ones I am running... That's about what the original NEMA17 motors had... So a nice option to get a little more force to the nozzle again though I didn't have problems with them yet. The smaller NEMA14 motors with 11Ncm made me problems so...
     
  5. jfb

    jfb Well-Known Member

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    Looks interesting Alex. I'm part way through building a @Björn version idex, but I'd be interested in this one for both better cooling and the larger X motors. I don't honestly know if either will cause me any problems, but even if not, I just like to play :)
     
  6. potti5

    potti5 Well-Known Member

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    Im not so good to use fusion but this is what i thinking. Those backside blocks seems to fit when mirror them. Front block need to redesign. Also that 36T pulley not fit but i dont know why it should be so big. Y-rods moves couble mm down and give little more space up than now. I think belt can mounts to y bearing clamps some how. Y idler need to get more compact.

    I dont know is this any benefits but it give lot space downstairs.
     

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  7. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    Well nice idea but i didn't wanna change so much of the motion system.
    Since I had not really problems with Chases original design I will go for it this way for now... tho go had som noise on the left side which I though was a result of that huge distance between the rods and belts...
     
  8. potti5

    potti5 Well-Known Member

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    Yeh that i think this go to far :)

    Still i make little test. Front block is hard to design old holes. Thanks for @Björn this fusion files :)
     

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  9. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    Looks interesting... Takes some problems away but still you will have to relocate the Y motor and as you already mentioned the Y pulley on the rod is a problem too...

    I got most of the open points sorted now... Here a new export...

    BTW this design can use the mirrored Titan on the right side too. This will help to design a symmetric wipe solution in the back...

    Up next is designing print cooling fan ducts...

    I made a test print of the X carriage with the belt mount which worked pretty well. Next test print will be an idler as I want to wait for print cooling ducts to print the first carriage parts for trying the assembly...
     

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  10. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    Actually looking at the whole system now I think a mirrored Titan is inevitable to get a good wipe solution...
     
  11. Björn

    Björn Well-Known Member

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    Hi Alex :)

    I Don't believe there is a temp problem with PLA anymore, look here :) https://forum.e3d-online.com/index....titan-idex-conversion.2555/page-10#post-28317

    I had the same problem as you printing PLA with the original dual titan design, the hot end fans where a little constrained by the print fan so I believe the whole problem was recirculation of hot air.
     
  12. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    @Björn ya I already saw that.
    Honestly there are other reasons I wanted to try a different design:
    I wanted the X motors on both sides, I wanted a design to use the mirrored Titan to make my wiped wipers possible, I had concerns there is not enough space in yours to make it possible, I wanted the BLTouch closer to the hotend, I wanted a fixed design without the cartridge and magnet stuff and last but not least I wanted a design which is easier to wire.
    Think that was all...
    Oh no: I wanted to make my own design :D
     
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  13. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    Here are some pics:
    BigBox_2.PNG BigBox_3.PNG BigBox_1.PNG BigBox_4.PNG

    Yeah the print cooling fan "floats" and air is directed around the print with a high energy "can't-talk-about-this-in-detail-because-it-is-super-secret" thing :D
     
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  14. Björn

    Björn Well-Known Member

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    Hm.. I hope the drive belt offset does not cause problems, otherwise I like what I see. I played around with putting a X-motor at each end too, but I did not find enough space.
     
  15. CHP

    CHP Member

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    This looks great. I tried the Chase IDEX but some parts were just too flimsy and broke off while assembling. Since I'm running acceleration at 5000 mm/s² and movement at 300 mm/s the occasional accidental crash can be quite forceful so the printer parts need to be stable.

    Will there be a volcano version? Or will you release the step files if it is done?
     
  16. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    The extrudes are just fixed so a volcano will be possible just by adjusting the Z sensor. And you will need a different mount for the fan ducts... Think that's all...
    Maybe when I finished the main design I will add those parts...
    Everything will be released when ready and tested...
    I am desingning the fan ducts. I hate this... Almost a day of work and still not ready... Fan ducts suck...
     
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  17. Björn

    Björn Well-Known Member

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    And while you are at it Alex, you could improve my fan ducts too :)
     
  18. mike01hu

    mike01hu Well-Known Member

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    Ah, I see your problem . . . Fan ducts BLOW! . . .:D
     
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  19. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    Ok here my latest development state.
    I had problems finding space for the print cooling fans but now I have a working solution. Though I have no idea if the ducts work that way. Didn't do a flow sim yet but I think I just print them and see how they work.
    I had to order new cable chains, because the spot where I can mount them on the idlers is too low above the upper frame supports so I need some with a smaller radius. I ordered two different ones from IGUS, we will see which work best...

    One problem is left: the camera... The right fan will collide with the cam mount, have to design a new cam mount too...

    BigBox_1.PNG BigBox_2.PNG BigBox_3.PNG BigBox_4.PNG
     

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    #19 Alex9779, May 20, 2017
    Last edited: May 20, 2017
  20. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    And rest done: ooze bucket mounts for servo wipers and camera adjusted...
    Think I got everything now.
    I mounted the Y axis carriages, fitting is good.
    I mounted my fan on the mounts , they also fit.
    I printed the clamps for the X carriages
    At the moment X carriages are printing, had to start them again, had a layer shift on my UM2...
    After that the rest of the parts for ooze wiping, I can reuse the mounts I already have, and the camera brackets and the fan ducts.
    Then I gotta wait for the new cable chains. I hope they arrive next week.

    Oh no forgot something! I have to print new clamps for the cable chains when they arrive and I decided which one to use...

    BTW Mirrored Titan arrived today. So good to go to finish this by the end of next week.

    I can't wait now that I took the time to design that shit to get the box printing again and play with the Duet in detail...

    And something else: playing around moving carriages in SolidWorks the result is that the Y motor can stay inside the box as long as I move the right carriage to the left a little when moving to the ooze bucket area. Left carriage can get to max Y with the right carriage to the far right but no to the ooze area. But this should be just a configuration problem for my wipe and ooze scripts in the Duet...
     

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