Duel extrusion?

Discussion in 'BigBox General Chat' started by Tripp, Feb 2, 2016.

  1. Tripp

    Tripp Well-Known Member

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    Okay, I'm really curious what people think of the duel extrusion with e3d hotend. I've been really contemplating a CEL Robox because of their ingenious pin system and how the nozzles actually move up and down and there is zero nozzle leveling required with duel extrusion as well as no worry of dripping or oozing.

    I'm sure you have to level the e3ds, but is there any idea how well they are with stopping and starting as far as dripping etc?
     
  2. Mike Kelly

    Mike Kelly Volunteer

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    Oozing is a bit of a complex thing. It varies by filament and extruder.

    Usually you can do pretty well with just a simple quick retraction, but you will still get some mild oozing.

    E3D came up with a pretty clever method on the bigbox for purging the nozzles to "eliminate" oozing.

    Their theory is that during normal conditions the filament has a "liquid" section in the nozzle. If your extruder is strong enough the idea is to essentially jam the filament into the nozzle pressing out all the liquid but so fast that the filament can't liquefy, thus acting as a plunger (similar principle to an injection molding machine) then yank it back out. This way the only "liquid" left is in the very small orifice which won't have enough mass to really ooze out after going over the wipe bar.

    This has been shown to work very effectively but we'll see once we start hearing from users with different filament types
     
  3. Tripp

    Tripp Well-Known Member

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    So you're saying they've actually added this to the BigBox? Isn't that kind of something that can be done with any extruder? I'm not being sarcastic at all. I'm just curious. Also, is there any kind of auto leveling with the actual extruders (not the bed)? I heard it's extremely hard to level extruders and it's really just a massive pain to use duel extrusion.

    I guess that's why I find the Robox so fascinating, but I do love the E3D team and $1500 is a hard pill to swallow.
     
  4. Mike Kelly

    Mike Kelly Volunteer

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    Yes you could certainly do it with most any extruder, but requires calibration so as to not cut a groove in the filament. It also requires a place to purge filament or a printed bucket of some sort to purge into etc.

    As for leveling there is definitely some truth to that. The bigbox does come with a very nice autoleveling systems, but with Marlin's new mesh leveling it's mostly just an optical endstop. With dual extrusion though you mostly want to avoid autoleveling and should do as much manual tramming as possible. That way you minimize the risk of clipping. Thankfully the Bigbox has a very nice bed leveling system.

    Once you get it it's more or less set and you don't need to worry again.

    The Robox is interesting with the flipping nozzles. I have to wonder how reliable that is. Sanjay and I have discussed those and we both have concerns about the repeatability of that method but in principle it should work. I would be surprised if the mad scientists at e3d haven't played with that idea at least a little.
     
  5. Kanedias

    Kanedias Well-Known Member

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    I just googled 'cel robox oozing' and see there are posts on their forum of people having issues with it.
     
  6. Tripp

    Tripp Well-Known Member

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    Some earlier models did, but most don't anymore.
     
  7. UlrichKliegis

    UlrichKliegis Well-Known Member

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    This one did. Admittedly from Oct 2014, but their company forum has similar more recent reports. Such nozzle valves are pretty sensitive. Changing filament materials might not always work as advertised. Ymmv.
     
  8. Kanedias

    Kanedias Well-Known Member

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    DRM'd filament and a proprietary dual extruder system that can only use one material. Interesting design choices.
     
  9. Dr Jeep

    Dr Jeep Well-Known Member

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    It's not DRMed as far as I can tell. Use of the smart reels is optional and you can supply filament profiles as a text file and load from plain reels, or you can flash used reels with your own profile, just reading up on it now it's quite a nice solution.

    I strongly dislike the systems that lock you into specific feedstock, it's ok in the commercial market I guess but not for us hobbiests but this doesn't appear to be one of them
     
  10. UlrichKliegis

    UlrichKliegis Well-Known Member

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    I would not invest in a printer that obviously relies on one single proprietary software package. Their Automaker seems to be tightly concatenated with their firmware (although probably very similar in its core to what we use) - but in this volatile market, I would think thrice about it.
     
  11. Tripp

    Tripp Well-Known Member

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    The filament is not DRM at all. No clue how you got that. You can even re-spool their smart spools with any 3rd party filament and change the settings to accomodate your new filament. And there is a new duel extruder for two filaments coming that was debuted at CES. Also, they are hugely popular in schools because of their locking mechanism. I seriously don't see them going anywhere at all.

    Really though, I didn't come here to discuss Robox. Trust me, if they were 1k, I'd get it hands down, but it's just hard to pay 1500, so I'm more curious about big box.
     
  12. Tripp

    Tripp Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I understand that. But they've fixed all those issues. In their first batch, there was a problem with a fail rate on the hotend and their pin system. It has been solved and they replace them free of charge. It won the award for one of the most reliable 3d printers from 3d Hubs in 2016, and multiple owners love them. I've watched reviews and people seriously rave about them.
     
  13. Tripp

    Tripp Well-Known Member

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    You can use other slicers. They support Cura and plenty of others. Seriously everyone, please don't randomly look at another company for 5 seconds and make statements without knowing what you're talking about.
     
  14. PsyVision

    PsyVision Moderator
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    I did my first dual colour 3D print ever last night and it was on the BigBox.

    No oozing at all, no ooze shield required. Nozzles aren't scraping the print and the bonding between coloured layers is really good.

    The only two issues I had is that the extruder offset is not right and grows worse with each colour change. Secondly I have an issue with retraction between layers (of the same colour). Both of these are just calibration issues and not BigBox specific. There is a photo on the G+ community for BigBox.
     
    Mike Kelly likes this.
  15. Tripp

    Tripp Well-Known Member

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    What does everyone think about the Sigma dual extrusion? I've seen a review, and it seems to be pretty amazing! Brilliant idea. I wonder if BigBox would consider doing something similar.
     
  16. Trevor

    Trevor Well-Known Member

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    It's obvious Bigbox doesnt operate like the Sigma and won't be out of the box. If you want the Sigma, buy a Sigma.
     
  17. Tripp

    Tripp Well-Known Member

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    No shit. Unfortunately, the Sigma has a 3.0mm extruder. That's a no for me. Of course, if you weren't being a dick, I wouldn't have to explain that. I was just wanting to discuss it with the community on what they thought about the design.
     
  18. Trevor

    Trevor Well-Known Member

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    Wow someone is a bit sensitive. You asked the question whether the BigBox sill work like the Sigma. I answered that it won't. Just browsing through your previous posts, seems like you're the one shutting everyone down every chance you get. You're even ridiculing e3d Bigbox on own board here about their pricing. Found the real "dick".
     
    #18 Trevor, Feb 4, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2016
  19. TstarkEngineering

    TstarkEngineering Well-Known Member

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    Tripp what kind of familiarity are you with 3d printers? Are you looking for a printer for your first time or upgrading? Maybe we can stay a bit more on topic to try and help you out with the best choice for your needs.
     
  20. Tripp

    Tripp Well-Known Member

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    Actually, you can't read aparently. I simply stated that I wondered if big box had thought about this. I know exactly how their dual extruder works.
     

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