Duet 3 Tool Boards are imminent!

Discussion in 'Tool heads & ToolChanger' started by dc42, Feb 3, 2020.

  1. dc42

    dc42 Well-Known Member

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    Duet3ToolBoards.jpg

    Further details will be announced on the Duet3D forum. Availability will be limited initially, but we'll manufacture a larger batch in due course. The mounting holes are compatible with Hemera. We've gone with screw terminals for the heater, fan and thermistor connectors to make DIY wiring easier. The motor connector is 4-pin JST PH. Price has been provisionally set at £39.50 each + tax + shipping, but we plan to offer a discount for those ordering 4.

    To use these Tool Boards, you will need a Duet 3 main board, and either our Tool Distribution Board (also to be announced shortly) or your own wiring scheme for distributing power (preferably fused) and CAN bus.
     
  2. yngndrw

    yngndrw Well-Known Member

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    Shut Up And Take My Money.gif

    I would have prefered plug-in connectors for everything personally especially given that they have been used on the main / expansion boards, any chance of a version with these instead? You have to crimp the motor connector anyway and it would be nice to be able to switch from an expansion board to a tool board without having to cut the existing plugs off just to test. (Or without the terminals so connectors can be added without having to desolder them? Although it looks like the pitch won't match the connectors used on the main / expansion boards)

    Are you planning to release a proposed setup for the tool changer, complete with the updated MS-ELEC-PANEL drawings to suit? Will there also be an updated wiring harness once the Tool Distribution Board has been completed?
     
    #2 yngndrw, Feb 3, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2020
  3. John Meacham

    John Meacham Well-Known Member

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    This looks really cool. I don't have a duet 3 yet but have been a huge proponent of rs485 for reprap for a long while and this gets pretty darn close to that. Do you have a page on your CAN-bus protocols used? How stable do you consider it, Networking infrastructure and protocols is pretty darn fascinating. Based on your other posts, I assume your distribution board is chaining the in and out CANbus and provides power, did you experiment with a star topology by chance? My napkin math says it should work with margin to spare but I'm completely willing to admit I may be missing something obvious (which I would be really eager to learn about).

    A pet project of mine has been a mechaduino/nanozero style servo that has a rs485/CAN connection and a protocol for sending perfectly synchronized motion plans to be coordinated with a clock pulse to get arbitrarily (for practical purposes) many devices working in perfect lockstep. I want to send NURBS curves to the motors directly and have them follow them perfectly tuned to something like MIDI timecodes sent out by the controller to keep everyone in sync. If they are 5 different motors chained in an arm that needs to avoid self intersection than timing is key. it just seems like such an interesting problem to work on.
     
  4. Paul Meyer

    Paul Meyer Well-Known Member

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    What is the general idea here? Simplifying wiring? Higher timing precision between x/y steppers and extruder stepper?
    Are there any demo printers out there showing improved quality or speed with this approach?

    Or are there other advantages for having dedicated processing next to the stepper? Pointers to discussions of the theory here would be appreciated.
     
  5. Jason Chodakowski

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    Ah, seems cool, although I think I asked somewhere else, since my TC was yet to ship, "Should I wait and do duet3?" And so of course now that I went duet2 these are out there... lol. Anyway, I like this idea a lot. Perhaps if I can figure out how to make my TC make money, I can do this on the second TC. ;)
     
  6. dc42

    dc42 Well-Known Member

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    I am not a fan of screw terminals either. On the prototypes we used JST VH for the heater, JST PH again for the motor, and JST ZH for everything else. But JST ZH are really hard to crimp, so it's more practical to use pre-crimped connectors. Then you need to solder the flying leads to the thermistor, fans etc. My colleague argued for screw terminals for those components that come with wires already attached (heater, thermistor and fans) so that Hemera/TC users can just cut and strip the wires on those components, fit ferrules in the case of the heater wires, and fit them to the terminals.

    Molex KK connectors won't take the heater current if you are using a 12V heater, also the straight ones take up too much height.

    What we'd really like is for E3D to offer fans, thermistors and PT1000 sensors for Hemera with JST ZH connectors pre-crimped. A 3-wire fan for the Hemera heatsink fan would be a nce option, because the Tool Board supports a tacho input for that fan.

    The Tool Distribution Board is already in manufacturing, but I am not aware of any plans for different wiring harnesses or panels yet.
     
  7. dc42

    dc42 Well-Known Member

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    The main benefit is simplified wiring. The Tool Board nominally supports 2 thermistor or PT1000 sensors, a heater output, a 3-wire fan output, a 4-wire fan output, a filament monitor input, a Z probe input/output and a stepper motor. If you used all of these devices, then without a tool board you would need up to 25 wires to connect them to an expansion board.

    The connectors on the Tool Board can be repurposed to interface other devices, and additional local processing could be done to meet specific requirements.

    Now that we have the tool board design and firmware, it's easy for us to do variations on it. For example, we're planning a version with a beefier stepper driver and encoder interface, to do closed-loop control. We also anticipate making custom versions of it for OEM customers.
     
  8. mkudzia

    mkudzia Active Member

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    Jason Chodakowski likes this.
  9. dc42

    dc42 Well-Known Member

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  10. Ben Kay

    Ben Kay Well-Known Member

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    So swapping from Duet2 to Duet 3, using the new toolboards, presumably that means that the Duet 3 expansion board isn't required?
     
  11. dc42

    dc42 Well-Known Member

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    Yes. A Duet 3 has 6 motor outputs, so in a TC that covers XYZC and 2 single-extruder tools. Add 2 tool boards and that's enough for 4 tools. You might also want the Tool Distribution Board to simplify the wiring.
     
  12. Ben Kay

    Ben Kay Well-Known Member

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    OK so think I got it.
    If want to go fully simplified wiring then (on all 4 tools), then it would be Duet 3 mainboard, 4 x tool boards and 1 x tool distribution board?
     
  13. dc42

    dc42 Well-Known Member

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    If all your tools will be Hemera tools or other direct drive tools then that is the logical solution, although not the cheapest.
     
  14. dc42

    dc42 Well-Known Member

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    HemeraTCparts.jpg
    Now I just need to see whether/how these parts will fit together :)
     
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  15. dc42

    dc42 Well-Known Member

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    The mounting hardware needed to mount a tool board on the back of Greg's printed Hemera tool parts is:
    • 4 off M3x12mm cap head or button head screws
    • 46off M3 nylon washer
    I'll discuss including some nylon washers with the tool board with my colleagues, but the first batch shipped probably won't include them. Two of the washers go under the Tool Board to account for the difference in thickness of the feet of the PCF duct (6.1mm) and the dock bracket(4.8mm). If the PCF duct is modified to have 4.8mm thick feet then you won't need to extra 2 washers and you will need 10mm screws not 12mm.

    To mount a Tool Distribution Board on the acrylic, you will need:
    • 4 M3 standoffs at least 5mm thick, which you could print yourself
    • 4 M3 nylon washers
    • 4 M3 screws, long enough for the PCB (1.6mm), standoffs, acrylic (5mm I think) and nuts. Or use threaded standoffs and shorter screws.
     
    #15 dc42, Feb 19, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
  16. Omnimuller Inc.

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    @dc42 Do these Toolboards support Pt100s natvely? Also, can you run m303 commands to tune the heaters on these?

    Will there ever be support for m303 on the expansion board?
     
  17. Ben Kay

    Ben Kay Well-Known Member

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    Did everything fit together? I'd love to see a finished tool before committing.
     
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  18. dc42

    dc42 Well-Known Member

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    Not quite, because the feet (the bits that screw into the side of the motor) of the PCF duct are thicker (6.1mm in my printed part) than the feet of the dock bracket (4.8mm), so the Tool Board does not sit square on them. Trimming the feet of the PCF duct to be the same thickness as on the dock bracket will also help ensure that the tool board fits under the dock without needing a hole cut in the acrylic to clear the tab on the tool board power connector. I'll work on that tomorrow.
     
  19. dc42

    dc42 Well-Known Member

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    No, but the 16-bit ADC on the tool board is great for PT1000 sensors, which E3D now sells. https://e3d-online.com/catalog/product/view/id/9350/s/pt1000/

    Yes, coming soon (to expansion boards and tool boards).
     
  20. Mike D

    Mike D New Member

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    @dc42 Really appreciate your work and looking forward to the Duet 3 that should arrive here tomorrow!

    Is the intent that this would be mounted on the back of a stepper or the side? If on the back I can not wait for the possibility of also having a closed loop system integrated directly into this board.

    Also as you look at connector options I would love to see us standardizing on a single plug that provides both power and CAN-FD.
     

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