Duet questions

Discussion in 'Guides, Mods, and Upgrades' started by Duncan Chivers, Sep 29, 2019.

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  1. Duncan Chivers

    Duncan Chivers Well-Known Member

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    Hi All, I'm intending on taking the plunge and swapping out my rumba for a duet. I'll go for the wired version as I've got ethernet right next to it. I have a few questions though, partly because I'm one of the lazy few who had a pre-built machine, and also so I don't mess up!

    Firstly, I have a single extruder v1.1, and I don't really have much intention on going multi tool, so should I get the full duet or will the Maestro do everything I need?

    Also, I'll get a paneldue screen too, but are there any pros or cons to the various size options? I read somewhere here that the 7" can get in the way of the bed for tall prints? I'm also assuming I'll need a daughter board, pretty sure I have a PT100.

    Can anyone recommend any parts I can print beforehand for mounting the board and screen?

    I'm also thinking about upgrading to a titan aero at the same time, any thoughts on that for my setup? I don't specifically need extra height, but the all in one nature of the part really appeals.
    Or should I focus on upgrading something else? One of the side effects that I'm looking forward to is noise, should I replace fans too?

    As I didn't put the kit together myself, I'll obviously follow as much of the posts here as I can for installation, but does anyone have any specific tips?

    Sorry, many many questions, but as always any help is appreciated.
     
  2. Spoon Unit

    Spoon Unit Well-Known Member

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    The Duet's not cheap, but I've never regretted it, so I think you'll be very pleased once you get through. Having a pre-built machine means you're going to feel a fair bit of pain, but the plus side is that you'll have a great deal more understanding of the printer once you're done.

    My Bigbox runs with these settings for the motors:

    M906 X900 Y900 Z800 E960:960 I30

    The reason I mention that is that the Maestro is limited to 1.6A per motor driver, and you can see from this that Bigbox will happily run well within those bounds. I have a full Duet, not a Maestro, but maybe someone else out there did get a Maestro also and can give more specific guidance. But on the face of it, it looks fine.

    If you want to continue using your PT100, yes you'll need a daughterboard.

    It looks like (but I can't be certain) the Maestro is identical in size to the Duet. If you verify that, there's a nice mounting plate here designed by @Alex9779, which takes a Duet and Duex. You could trim it or just use it as is:

    https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1899633

    If you often print to a full 300 height, you could print a Panel Due mount that could just sit infront of the printer instead of being directly mounted, such as this one for the Toolchanger:

    https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3814978

    The question of the Titan Aero is a bit more involved. You'd need an X carriage to take the Aero for one. I can't find a model for that on Thiniverse, but I think there might be one hiding on the forum somewhere if you dig deep. If you can't find one to mount to the original X rod positions, you're either going to have to design one yourself or go for a much bigger conversion, such as this:

    https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2519833

    Of course, you'd only need to print one toolhead to mount the aero instead of both components of the IDEX. Then you'd need to extend the height of the bed as I think it'll be a little too low.

    If you start be keeping it simple and focussing on the swap to the Maestro, the first and biggest pain you'll encounter will be opening up the bottom of the machine. There's really no simple way to explain the whole process. You probably want to go and immerse yourself in the original build guide for a while:

    https://wiki.e3d-online.com/BigBox_Printer_main_assemblies:_Step_By_Step_Assembly_Process

    In particular you can see here the machine with the bottom off: https://wiki.e3d-online.com/File:Bowden_titan_side.jpg

    Here you can see the state before the original RUMBA was connected up: https://wiki.e3d-online.com/File:Wires.jpg

    With any luck, your prebuilt machine is really well labelled. If not, label all those wires up beautifully before you do anything. You're going to need to be able to map from this: https://wiki.e3d-online.com/File:Rumba_pro.png, to this: https://www.duet3d.com/image/cache/catalog/Maestro/Duet2Maestro_MainFeatures_dwg1.1-800x800.png

    Once all the cables are nicely labelled, the switch should look something like this:

    Disconnect all wires
    Lay machine on it's side or back (I'd go for back)
    Remove all nut traps for the base
    Carefully lay the base on the table
    Remove RUMBA
    Add Alex's Duet mount
    Mount Duet
    Connect the Duet here if you can
    Push base back up to box
    Add the nut traps back
    Connect the Duet up through the hole (if you couldn't do it before)
    Double check everything many times
    Turn on hope you did all your homework fully
     
  3. Duncan Chivers

    Duncan Chivers Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, that's really useful stuff. I'm leaning towards the full duet I think, not for any particular reason other than future proofing. That being the case it looks like that mounting bracket is perfect. I will probably go with the panelddue housing as it is, and then maybe make a different version once i have something to measure from.

    I've heard very good things about noise reduction when switching, is that your experience too? If it then ends up being the fans that are the noisiest thing, then I wonder whether I just go ahead and replace my stock ones with noctua alternatives at the same time.

    I think you're totally right and I should leave the hot end for now. There's nothing wrong with the titan I have, I guess I'm just getting excited! :D

    I'm hoping that there may be a bit of a price reduction on the duet 2 once v3 is fully available (which I'm guessing will be next week, given that they are pushing it currently at the show). Maybe that's wishful thinking!
     
  4. Duncan Chivers

    Duncan Chivers Well-Known Member

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    Also, I'm assuming that my rpi running octoprint will be completely redundant once I've switched?
     
  5. Spoon Unit

    Spoon Unit Well-Known Member

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    I'd be surprised if the Duet2 would get any reduction. They essentially cater to different requirements. The Duet3 is more extensible for probably much increased control demands, certainly way beyond the BigBox's needs. If you go with the full Duet, you can follow many people's posts on this forum, whereas for Maestro you'd probably be off to the Duet forum. But it does look like it would be doable anyway, and probably not much difference in the end.

    It's so long since I upgraded that I've forgotten how noisy the original RUMBA was. The noisiest things by far on my original BB are now the exhaust fan and the PSU fan. If and when I can bear the horror of getting into the bottom chamber again, I might well replace them. If you're still on the original heatsink fans, they're probably going to be the next noisiest item. Vibration from the Y motor won't be gone totally. You might already have fitted a damper to that, but if not, that's another simple addition to reduce the noise further. You probably can get the BB down to whisper quiet, depending on those other fans, but speed increases will also be at the cost of noise.
     
  6. Spoon Unit

    Spoon Unit Well-Known Member

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    Your R-Pi can still provide camera duties, which can be integrated into DWC. Otherwise, yes, it can be redundant, or I think you could hook it up to work as it does now. Give DWC a try and see how you feel; most people, I suspect, fall in love with it.
     
  7. Duncan Chivers

    Duncan Chivers Well-Known Member

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    Ok, fans too, I'll definitely do it at the same time. Thanks for your advice
     
  8. jfb

    jfb Well-Known Member

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  9. Duncan Chivers

    Duncan Chivers Well-Known Member

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  10. Duncan Chivers

    Duncan Chivers Well-Known Member

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    Ok, slightly off topic from the thread title, but related:

    Any suggestions for the best fans to choose to replace the stock ones?
     
  11. dc42

    dc42 Well-Known Member

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    I am late replying to this thread, and I don't have a BigBox; but here goes:

    - The Duet 2 is unlikely to be reduced in price this year. We'll be revising the design next year, reducing its capability somewhat (because the Duet 3 will take over at the high end), and at that time we will make cost savings and reduce the price.
    - Based on the motor currents that SpoonUnit reports he is using, Duet Maestro will be adequate for a BigBox
    - Duet Maestro prefers 24v power if you want the motors to be as quiet as possible.
    - Duet Maestro has the same form factor and mounting holes as Duet WiF/Ethernet, but the Ethernet connector is in a different position.
    - Duet Maestro doesn't support stall detection, but that probably isn't useful on a BigBox anyway except perhaps for filament loading.
    - Duet Maestro makes it easier to connect a BLTouch, also if you want a display you have the choice of PanelDue or the cheaper RepRapDiscount-compatible 12864 display

    So although the company I work for makes more profit on a Duet WiFi or Ethernet, I suspect the Maestro is more suited to the BigBox unless you especially want WiFi not Ethernet.

    HTH David
     
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  12. Duncan Chivers

    Duncan Chivers Well-Known Member

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    Thanks David, that's really helpful.

    When you say that the Maestro prefers 24v, what do you mean? Can you elaborate on that?
     
  13. dc42

    dc42 Well-Known Member

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    With some stepper motors, the TMC2208 drivers on the Maestro are quieter with 24V power than with 12V.
     
  14. Duncan Chivers

    Duncan Chivers Well-Known Member

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    Thanks David, much appreciated.

    Sorry to bump the thread, but I'm struggling to find the right alternative for the fans. As Noctua only seem to produce 5v or 12v versions, is a buck converter the only option, or are there similarly quiet fans available from another vendor which can run on 24v?
     
  15. Miasmictruth

    Miasmictruth Well-Known Member

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    If you want a crazy fan idea, I am working on a version of this

    https://hackaday.io/project/45993-the-mother-of-all-print-cooling-fans

    But I am going to try this instead of a CPAP blower which seems impossible to find at a good value.

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07V41X4RT/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    It wont be crazy powerful like the CPAP but I think it will work we will see. If I get it working on the big box I plan to try and integrate it in the printer I am building.
     
  16. jfb

    jfb Well-Known Member

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    Here is the original blog post for that fan https://drmrehorst.blogspot.com/2018/01/the-mother-of-all-print-cooling-fans.html, and he has a couple of links to some blowers there. Still not 'cheap' though.
     
  17. Duncan Chivers

    Duncan Chivers Well-Known Member

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    Hi @jfb I printed the paneldue enclosure in advance, and now I'm well into pulling cables apart all over the place. I've just checked the enclosure against the paneldue 7i that I've bought (obviously should have done it before I started!) and it doesn't fit. The pillar in the middle under the speaker holes is in the way, and the screw holes didn't seem to line up at all. Has there been a revision to the screen?
     
  18. Sarah Nicholson

    Sarah Nicholson Well-Known Member

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    That enclosure may have been for the original PanelDue rather than the 7i. Funnily enough I'm in the process of trying to get my BigBox back up and running and I've also just upgraded to Duet. I remixed Ephemeris' original design with one of the PanelDue 7i cases for the ToolChanger recently posted here and that works really well. I can share the STL if it helps, although you will need to use some heat set inserts or tweak the design a bit to fit some nuts.
     
  19. Duncan Chivers

    Duncan Chivers Well-Known Member

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    Hi Sarah, thanks that would be great if you don't mind.
     
  20. Sarah Nicholson

    Sarah Nicholson Well-Known Member

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    Here you go - I printed it in three parts to avoid needing supports although you could potentially combine the bezel and frame. Much of the credit should go to Ephemeris and Orcinus whose original designs I combined and adapted.

    The holes in the adapter plate are sized for M3x4x5 threaded inserts because I had a load I was using for some other enhancements I'm making to my BigBox, but I've included the STEP file so you could easily make them a bit smaller and just tap into them or add nut pockets or recesses. I think I used M3x22m screws to hold it all together.

    Now to finish getting my BB back to life - electronics are all done and tested, just need to put the leadscrews back in and go through the commissioning steps again. It's close to printing again!
     

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