E3D Jamming with both ABS and PLA

Discussion in 'E3D-v6 and Lite6' started by docwelch, Apr 19, 2014.

  1. Eaglezsoar

    Eaglezsoar Administrator

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    Good news so far, let us know if the print is successful.
     
  2. Magic-Goat

    Magic-Goat Member

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    Looks like this is the problem i'm having too, can i buy a good nozzle? I don't think i have the tools needed to accurately adjust the current one. All i have is a hand drill?
     
  3. Sanjay

    Sanjay Administrator
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    Magic-Goat,

    No need to buy anything - you paid for a working product, you should get one. (Sorry if yours hasn't been working out right so far!)

    Just get in touch through the contact us page http://e3d-online.com/ContactUs quoting your order number and I'll get you one shipped out, completely free.

    It would be great to also get your questionable nozzle back here to inspect - if you pop it in a jiffy bag and send it by some tracked service back to us with a note containing your order number and the receipt for postage we'll refund the cost for getting it back to us.
     
  4. Magic-Goat

    Magic-Goat Member

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    Thanks Sanjay!

    Really appreciate that, I'll send a message now. It's no problem for me to send my current one back :)
     
  5. myk68

    myk68 Member

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    Hi Docwelch

    so would you say its the nozzle that has been the block.? i have tried the seasoning with olive oil but this has made no difference. I have ordered a new nozzle so have a spare coming if I muck up the drilling. what was the best way you found to do it.??
     
  6. mhackney

    mhackney Well-Known Member

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    myk68,

    The best way to drill the bore is by hand - no drill or lathe. It is much more controllable so anyone can do it without danger. A pin vice is an ideal tool for this but you can even twirl the drill bit between your fingers. It takes a minute but what's the hurry? And you don't risk over drilling. Measure frequently as you narrow in on the final length (.5mm).

    cheers,
    Michael
     
  7. myk68

    myk68 Member

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    Hi Michael

    I may not need to drill it anyway. As I was squooting round on the forum I saw something about the width of the PTFE tube and how easy it move with one tube but not with the tube from e3d. so I check mine out and it was tight as heck, no wonder the stepper wasnt feeding.

    Turns out the hob bolt I'm using has been roughing the PLA up so much that the barbs it made where causing massive friction.

    I have ground the offending teeth down and still have grip but now its not so rough. and seems to be better but Im getting this now



    sorry for the quality. it was printing at the time lol

    Mike
     

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  8. docwelch

    docwelch Member

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    Guess I spoke too soon. After getting a couple of good prints, my E3D hotend is back to its old trick of printing for 20-30 minutes and then clogging. I've been trying to print the same part that printed (right after drilling out the nozzle) so I know it can print. I even took the hotend apart and cleaned everything again but to no avail.
     
  9. mhackney

    mhackney Well-Known Member

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    Many of us have been down this path. Things seem fine for awhile and then filament starving/clogging again. I've done it ALL :( and then I got serious and started doing control tests and measuring things. That's when I developed the frozen plug method to see exactly what the inside of the hot end and heat break look like. And I discovered the too-long bore in all 5 of my nozzles (1 E3D and 1 Kraken). I've fixed them all and I've printed well over 200 parts at reasonable PLA temps (185-190°C) and good speeds (up to 90mm/s). It is like a completely different hot end now, no oozing, crisp flow start and stop, and NO jamming whatsoever.

    I have no doubt that many users have acceptable nozzles at the 1mm spec and may never see a problem. I do think .5mm is better for a .4mm nozzle diameter. That's near a 1:1 ratio of D to length and that seems fine for everything I've done. Of everything I've done to attack this problem, this change resulted in immediate and obvious difference in how well the extruder works. It requires much less press to push the filament through the nozzle.
     
  10. Eaglezsoar

    Eaglezsoar Administrator

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    Everyone who prints with PLA experiences the little "hairs" that result. Mhackney, has your nozzle fix also reduced the amount
    of "hairs" that are seen?
     
  11. mhackney

    mhackney Well-Known Member

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    Yes it has Eagle. The reduced back pressure, being able to print at lower temperatures and more effective retract all work together to reduce the angle hairs.
     
  12. docwelch

    docwelch Member

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    Interesting turn of events! I have now found that I can print from one roll of PLA but not from another, even though they are from the same supplier. I can put in the "bad" roll and have a failure. I change over to the "good" roll and can print the exact same part without issue. Change back to another "bad" roll and failure again. The "bad" rolls will successfully print from a J-head (and the quality of the print is good). I have tried some temperature modifications with the "bad" rolls but it has not helped. I am sending word to the supplier about my findings. This is just another data point for those having trouble - even material from the same supplier may or may not work. I even have two rolls of the same color (different batch numbers) where one will print and the other will not.

    It is worth noting that I get the same behavior with my Hexagon hotend - one roll prints fine and another does not.
     
  13. Eaglezsoar

    Eaglezsoar Administrator

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    Isn't this 3d printing fun? You can't even rely on filament from the same manufacturer. There are so many variables that it is
    amazing that we get anything to print at all. Even with all the problems we still manage to get some very good prints.
     
  14. lukan

    lukan Member

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    docwelch:

    When you get a jam, pull out the offending filament, then measure the diameter of the filament all the way back past where the hobbed bolt touches the filament.

    I have found that a spool from justpla ranges from 1.70 to 1.94 mm o.0 which absolutely jams the E3D each and every time it hits the larger section. So, I started with filament that already has larger diameter in multiple sections, then add the slight squish of the hobbed bolt... well...

    If you could verify the diameter of your offending filament, it will most likely point to the same issue and poor tolerance control by the manufacturer.
     
  15. mhackney

    mhackney Well-Known Member

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    Docwelch, have you measured the nozzle bore length of the hexagon nozzle? Being a wagering man, I'll bet that it has a bore >= 1mm long and that the differences you are seeing is actually related to back pressure and plugging and not really the PLA. This is exactly the path (different PLA source not printing when another did just fine) that ultimately caused me to investigate plugging in greater detail. Different dyes and even formulations are used for different filament colors and these can have a profound effect on flow and melt properties. I will go out on a limb (and I am not accusing, just making a comment) that either reprapdiscount acquired an E3D hot end, measured the nozzle bore and measured a long bore like many of us. They then based their design on this and are also exposed to the problems we've observed. OR, they got unlucky too and used a long bore. Note that the JHead has a .5mm long bore, less pressure to push PLA through and not very many bad reports on its ability to print all sorts of PLAs. The issue is in the nozzle in my now well tested opinion. Dozens of E3D users have now measured (and reported directly to me) their nozzles and modified them as I've indicated and are printing PLA again. There may be a few still having issues, it's difficult to remove all the other variables. The one thing I do know, once I shortened the bore length of my nozzles, this is the best hot end I've got in my arsenal. It simply prints faster, at high quality, than any other hot end I've used. The guys will sort this out, I am confident, and everyone will be back on track to printing excellence.

    Cheers,
    Michael
     
  16. mhackney

    mhackney Well-Known Member

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    Docwelch, I am just curious, what colors (and are the translucent or opaque) are the PLAs that work and those that don't work?

    cheers,
    Michael
     
  17. docwelch

    docwelch Member

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    Michael:
    The bore is less than 1 mm as I drilled it out.
    The colors are all opaque. One dark blue roll with print, another dark blue roll will not. White and yellow will not print. I have a roll of light blue from another supplier that prints just fine (with the bore reduced to less than 1mm - it would not print with the long bore).

    lukan:
    The filament from all five rolls measures between 2.95 and 2.99 mm consistently - even when there is a jam. I had thought about that and measured it already. Even with the "damage" created by the hobbed bolt, the measurements are within spec. The feed pressure is high enough as the hobbed bolt will grind a notch in the filament if allowed after the jam.
     
  18. AndersE

    AndersE Active Member

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    I still have a lot of jams. I have polished the barrel + heatbreak, drilled out the nozzle, sharpened the teeth on the hobbed bolt, increased and decreased filament pressure to the bolt, tried different ABS and PLA.

    Still, after and hour printing it starts to decrease the filament feed until it stops and grinds the fileament.
    If i then take a copperstrand from a wire and stick into the nozzle i can print a couple of minutes more.
    I think my copperstrand releases pressure.
    If i try to manually feed filament when stuck i can feel it is "springy" so to say.

    If i swap back to original k8200 hotend i have no problems.
     
  19. docwelch

    docwelch Member

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    AndersE,

    Definitely try filament from another supplier. You will note in my post that I had trouble with different rolls (even of the same color) from one supplier with my E3D.
     
  20. AndersE

    AndersE Active Member

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    I think it was a bad buy this hotend, because i want to be able to use everything to print. I am building a filament extruder to be able to do my own filaments.

    It must be a construction error, after all the k8200 original works with everything.
     

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