Extrusion Issues

Discussion in 'E3D-v6 and Lite6' started by Nekrash, Mar 2, 2019.

  1. Nekrash

    Nekrash Member

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    Hey everyone!

    I am using E3Dv6 HotEnds on my CR-10s, my Anet A8 and 2 TEVOs.

    They are doing their work, except on JANBEX PLA, which causes terrible extrusion issues. I have been printing before with that filament and it gave me the best results, but it just won't work on my CR-10s (bowden) and the Anet A8 (bowden) with E3Dv6. On the other hand, the TEVOs (direct) have absolutly no problems printing with the same spool of JANBEX PLA and E3Dv6 HotEnds.

    On my CR-10s and Anet A8, the HotEnd causes blocks or uneven extrusion. Other materials are working just fine. First i thought the geared extruder of the TEVOs are the solution, so i purchased a Titan Extruder increase the pushing power, but the issues are still there.

    I've run out of ideas but want to keep using my favorite filament on every printer.

    What I have tried so far:
    Temp from 180-220
    Retraction 0 to 5.5
    Printing speed 10-100mm/s
    Part cooling 0-100%
    lowest to maximum pressure of the gear on the filament
    Cleaning the gear, HotEnd, reassembling it (since i am also using E3Dv6 at work i have assembled multiple ones), changing the PTFE tube

    The CR-10s uses a 40mm Noctua fan, on the Anet A8 im using the original 30mm E3D fan. As far as I can tell, the airflow isn't blocked.

    I use a hardend steel nozzle, 0.5 and 0.6mm, but also tried on standard 0.4mm brass nozzle on both the CR10s and the Anet A8. RaspPi with Octoprint.


    Pictures and description: imgur.com/a/jgfOhew

    I would be very grateful for any advice! Please help me solving this problem, I have been spending too many weekends on trying to fixing it but do not make any progress.

    If any other information is required, let me know and i will add it!
     
    #1 Nekrash, Mar 2, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2019
  2. Nekrash

    Nekrash Member

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    I've followed the steps in the trouble shooting guide and contacted the support, but received no reply yet (1 week ago).
    Are there any specific steps i can follow to locate the source of the issue?
     
  3. Daniel Rock

    Daniel Rock Well-Known Member
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    Hi Nekrash,

    I have had a look through the images and read through your descriptions, from what I gather you have:

    x2 Tevo printers with a direct drive v6 setup, is this with Titan Extruder? what stepper motor are you using? (working with the JANBEX PLA)

    x1 Cr10s with a Bowden v6 setup is this using a Titan Extruder? what stepper driver are you using? (working with the JANBEX PLA but not leaving a good finish.)

    x1 Anet A8 with a Bowden v6 setup is this using a Titan Extruder? what stepper motor are you using? (working with JANBEX PLA but not leaving a good finish.)

    The first thing I would suggest is to limit the variables between the prints let's start with the CR10:

    • Stick with a print speed of 40mm/s for now.
    • Set the retraction to 0.5mm
    • Set the flow rate or extrusion multiplier to 100%
    • Print a temperature calibration tower I have a guide on how to do this here: https://e3d-online.dozuki.com/Guide/Calibrating+Printing+temperature/91?lang=en for PLA I would suggest starting with 185°C if you are able to extrude at that temperature.
    • Upload the picture/ pictures here so we can work out the next stages.
     
  4. Nekrash

    Nekrash Member

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    Thank you for the reply!

    2x TEVO Black Widow with E3Dv6 HotEnd and genuine extruder (five-fold translation) which is direct. Results with JANBEX PLA are good. Nema17 stepper motor.

    CR-10s Bowden with E3Dv6 and Titan Extruder (Nema17 Motor, not an E3D motor. Stepper driver: a4988 (haven't changed the original board). Results with PLA are terrible caused by uneven extrusion.

    Anet is Bowden w/ E3Dv6 HotEnd, simple extruder with Nema17 motor. Results with PLA are terrible caused by uneven extrusion.

    ---

    I will print the temp tower tomorrow and upload the pictures.
     
  5. Nekrash

    Nekrash Member

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    I've printed the temp tower with those settings:
    0.5mm retraction
    25mm/s retraction speed
    100% flowrate
    40mm/s printspeed
    20mm/s outside wall
    2 outline layers
    0.5mm nozzle
    15% part fan starting with 2nd layer
    185-190-195-200-205-210-215-220°C printing temp

    Picture: imgur.com/a/p80B3Jw

    After that i started another print with the same settings as before only changing to a constant temperature of 185°C and 25% infill.

    Picture: imgur.com/a/RWqUdCn

    Extruder started clicking at about 68% of the print so i had to stop, uneven extrusion on outline perimeter shells and inconstant infill. Uneven extrusion happened from the first line.

    Edit: I tried printing the temp tower with the previous settings and constant 185°C, but this time it had uneven extrusion from the beginning and hotend clogged at ~layer 20
     
    #5 Nekrash, Mar 14, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
  6. Daniel Rock

    Daniel Rock Well-Known Member
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    Is the stepper motor getting hot to the touch when the print starts to jam? and is there any filament grinding going on?
     
  7. Nekrash

    Nekrash Member

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    Apologies for the delayed answer, i have been busy in the last weeks.

    There is definately filament grinding happening. This happens with different materials and is not limited to the problematic PLA.
    I had no chance to test the temp of the stepper motor yet, but the motor doesn't seem to lose steps when jammed, instead it tends to grind the filament. Therefore i guess the temperature of the stepper motor stays within an acceptable range. (before i installed the geared titan extruder i increased the pressure on the filament and there the motor actually lost steps)

    Picture of the filament: imgur.com/4PdhDOw
    The left one shows the point where the hotend jammed and the extruder started to grind into the material. Additionally, it shows when the hotend partially clogged and the gear was cutting deeper into the filament.
     
    #7 Nekrash, Apr 2, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2019
  8. rudelhutze

    rudelhutze New Member

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    Hi Nekrash,

    did you fix the problem? I do have exactly the same issue with my DIY printer. Janbex Line 1 did a perfect Job but using Line 2 i do have extreme under extusion which is uneven extruded, too. If i rise the temperature up to 225 deg, i do get slightly better results but still inacceptable. I am curious if you gave up or got a solution for the problem. On the other hand my Ender 3 has no problem with this filament. But it does not have an E3D hotend (still standard).

    My print settings:
    Nozzle 0.4mm (experimented with other values keeping the same nozzle)
    Extrusion Multiplier: 1.0 (went up to 1.2 without a good result)
    Extrusion with: 0.4mm
    retraction distance: 5mm (sadly i use a long bowden)
    retraction Speed: 1800mm/min
    first layer height: 100%
    first layer width: 120%
    first layer speed: 25% (!!!!!)
    primary layer heigth: 0.3mm
    outline overlap: 15%
    temperature: tried a lot up to 225deg for first layer)
    Filament diameter set correctly (1.73mm)
    The bed is leveled correctly, the filament strings look good and do have a good adhesion to the bed.
    part cooling disabled due to no fan installed at the moment.

    In addition, i did change the nozzle and heatbreak. First i was using the full metal heatbreak, then the hotend got clogged immediatly, now i am using the one with PFTE tubing, no more cloggs but underextrusion.

    What i do notice is, that when i stop the print, there is an extremly large amount of filament comming out of the Extruder after stopping the print. So it seems to be that there is a lot of pressure in the hotend.

    I am slicing with simplify 3d and i do have several years (and spools of filament) practice, but still learning a lot.
    My Printer is driven by an Arduino Mega with ramps 1.4 running repetier firmware. The print itself is running via repetier server what went pretty well so far.

    The extrudermotor is a Nema 17 from stepperonline with 2.0 amps. I did try to increase the current with no effect.
    I did not encounter any grinding or lost steps as far as i could observe that. I do not know if the Driver (a4988) lost steps by getting hot, the Motor did not grind or loose steps. I cannot exclude a little grinding, but i do see a constant extrusion of the filament.

    The filament is extruded through the bowden without a big resistance and there is no big resisteance inserting the filament when the nozzle is hot.

    My conclusion to this is, that the filament is not solvent enough to get easily extruded. So the Printer is not able to extrude all the Filament he wants to. As i do face this problem only with Janbex Line 2 filament i do think this is not printable with my setup.

    I try to attach a picture of the first layer:

    As i do have a lot of that Filament left, i would much appreciate if somone could help.
    Kind regards
    rudel
     
    #8 rudelhutze, Jul 21, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2019

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