Filament Calibration issues on Titan Hybrid Pro

Discussion in 'Calibration, Help, and Troubleshooting' started by Steven Burns, Jul 31, 2016.

  1. Steven Burns

    Steven Burns Well-Known Member

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    I am having some very odd behavior from the Titan after I upgraded.

    I am using the original stepper motor and after doing the calcs I should be at about 836 steps. I am already at 860 steps and getting very fine lines for the first layer, but it should be over-extruding like mad at this point.

    I am using RC6 and Alex's S3D profile, but no matter what I seem to try it stays the same.

    I started with a z-bed position of .1 and am now down to -.104, but the nozzle does not seem to be getting any closer to the bed.

    Thoughts?
    IMG_4255.JPG
     
  2. Henry feldman

    Henry feldman Well-Known Member

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    So I was about to post a similar question, when you posted yours. So I too (latest hybrid dual firmware from @Alex9779 ) and am getting weird patchy fill (Z seems OK, not as good as the old extruder, but pretty good). When I did a 100mm extrude test, it was within the margin of error of a sharpie stripe on a filament so we will call that perfect at 850 (went as high as 950 which made no change but gumming up the hot end). I tried a range of temperatures as seen below the two extremes with no change. I note the lines seeming finer than before. I used the stock stepper (I have the pancakes but just want to get the Chase's). I will note the stringing is also new at 210 (PLA/PHA) compared to prior 1.0 extruder.

    @Alex9779, @Chase.Wichert or @mike01hu any ideas? My goal is to print out onto Chase's system, but need a working printer to get there! (yes I can print it on my Taz6 at work, but it while extremely reliable isn't as fine detailed)

    [​IMG]
     
  3. Steven Burns

    Steven Burns Well-Known Member

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    Let's make this even more strange. If you are using a pancake stepper then the specs state you should be at about 416 steps as the pancakes are 200 steps per revolution. Mine is a 400 so that works out to be about 836.

    If yours is set at 850 you should either be pumping out way too much plastic or causing an instant clog because the extruder is trying to feed twice as much plastic as the nozzle can push out.

    At 860 mine should be pushing too much as well, but it looks like it is under extruding without a reason and no way to actually make any adjustments that matter.

    I originally had a pancake installed and swapped for the larger motor thinking it would solve this issue and that the smaller motor could not handle the Titan.

    I am really just hoping this is a firmware issue as I cannot figure out the root cause.
     
  4. TimV

    TimV Well-Known Member

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    Take a picture of the inside of your Titan.
    There are known issues with the big wheel (or rather with the teeth on the little axle of the big wheel.
    These 'bite' into the filament and push it thru the extruder. There has been a slight issue with them where the teeth are not deep enough causing the filament to slip.
    Just take a picture of it, post it here, if it's bad, you can contact support and they will instantly replace it (they did for me and some others here)
    See also here : https://forum.e3d-online.com/index.php?threads/titan-not-extruding-correctly.1214/page-2 --> post #30 the picture says it all.
    Unsure if this is the case btw.
    Also, on a 0,9° motor, step are 835 on a 1.8 it is 417,5!
    (was a typo in the github page, with I submitted to them to correct it)
    https://github.com/BigBox3D/Firmware --> Bottom of the page!

    Hope this helps
    T.
     
  5. Henry feldman

    Henry feldman Well-Known Member

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    In my case, this is the replacement. Also then it should not be precise on the 100mm extrusion calibration.
     
  6. mike01hu

    mike01hu Well-Known Member

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    @Henry feldman, I have the Hybrid Dual and the Titan is functioning consistently, other than my XT CF20 issues, but I found it important to ensure that I had a good fit for the PTFE feed tube in the lever, ensuring it went right through to the hob; this is to ensure the filament is properly aligned with the hob groove. Likewise, the lower PTFE tube has to be an accurate fit to ensure no free play up and down inside the hotend as this will lead to jamming.

    Also, there are several important variables that you have not provided. The bed level, extrusion width or multiplier setting, the retraction and Z-lift settings and the infill overlap percentage, as well as flow rate, colour and cooling etc.. As you are well aware, there are so many variables, so simple test pieces are the best way to check what happens. Benchy is a complex piece and is good for checking if you are going to be successful with all your settings brought together after individual tests.

    For my part, I have three pieces that I use, a single layer 25mm disc, a 20mm cube with an upside-down 10mm diameter recess 10mm deep, filled and unfilled and a longer piece that includes circular features and walls; every new filament is tested with the first two. The most important for me is the first one as this gives a clear indication of track width and overlap as well as first layer thickness. Who made the filament is also just as important as the material type and next is colour as I find that each colour can behave differently; white PLA has always been a pain in the butt for me on 3mm and I have avoided it so far with BB:rolleyes:. Once I have a satisfactory set of data for a filament I save the process and a base factory file for that filament then create a part factory file with it. This may be an inefficient way of doing it but for me it works . . . usually! I'd like to know what @Alex9779 does, as he has a much better handle on S3D than I have.

    I am sorry that I cannot be more positive but I am not printing much at the moment, other than XT CF20 tests, as I am in the middle of a large design project, parts of which will be printed later.
     
  7. Steven Burns

    Steven Burns Well-Known Member

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    Just to confirm, I do have the new hob gear with the longer teeth and the filament is not slipping.

    Also, this is PLA at 200.
     
  8. gearmesh

    gearmesh Well-Known Member

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    I am in the same boat. Want to move to Chase's design.
    In PLA I can print pretty much anything. I struggled with EDGE and could only get a decent print if my part was a solid with no jumping around. I am now working with MakerGeek Raptor PLA but I am still working on getting the settings ironed out.
     
  9. Henry feldman

    Henry feldman Well-Known Member

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    OK, major progress. Decided maybe something was corrupt. So redownloaded @Alex9779 mirrored MBL hybrid firmware and mirrored profile for S3d. Reset the settings, painfully redialed back to the e-steps. Then replaced/sliced my test object (a small pillow block) and way, way, way better. Not 100% yet, but 99%, which is so much better. So something was obviously mis-set. Not worth figuring out what it was, since it is now way happier!
     
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  10. Henry feldman

    Henry feldman Well-Known Member

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    So the sides and bottom are the best I've ever had. They look injection molded. The top is almost perfect except the connection to the outline is kind of ratty. I forgot to snap a pic before going to work, but I will tonight (likely to be a long day, the hospital is completely full already at 7am)
     
  11. Steven Burns

    Steven Burns Well-Known Member

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    Mine are getting better, but my esteps are almost 1000 at this point.

    Does everyone use auto for extrusion width? Mine is set to auto and I am wondering if that could be the culprit. If I do not set it to Auto, what is a good setting?

    Like Henry, the prints are coming out great as far as the layers are concerned, the bottom walls are not meeting/merging and the top is over extruding a bit and making a rough top layer. That is why I am thinking that it is not the esteps, but some other setting that I am just missing somehow.
     
  12. Henry feldman

    Henry feldman Well-Known Member

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    So here is the image. The bottom and sides are pristine. Just running @Alex9779 's unadjusted FFF for S3D for the mirrored hybrid. Any idea what setting needs to be tweaked for the top (the honeycomb wasn't awesome either). I will say I did try slowing it down to 45 (from 60) and to be honest it didn't seem to slow down. That could I suppose be the issue?

    [​IMG]
     
  13. Steven Burns

    Steven Burns Well-Known Member

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    The plot thickens. Mine is the exact opposite of that. I agree that there is something else here that we are missing.

    Does anyone know what the micro steps are on the 400 steppers? Is it 16 or 32?
     
  14. Henry feldman

    Henry feldman Well-Known Member

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    I can certainly raise the outline overlap in settings, since that seems quite low.
     
  15. Steven Burns

    Steven Burns Well-Known Member

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    What is yours set at. I think mine is 33%
     
  16. mike01hu

    mike01hu Well-Known Member

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    Henry, I found that I needed 30% for white PLA in the past but it was one of my gripes about S3D in that it was not uniform when performing overlaps, missing one side completely yet overlapping on the opposite side on basic settings. It seems to be better now since the update but I have not tried it with white PLA on my BB.
     
    #16 mike01hu, Aug 3, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2016
  17. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    When I get such defects I can always fix them with printing slower, at least first layer and solid infill...
    This heavily depends on the filament, also extrusion width plays a role here.
    Though the extrusion width setting not only influences the line spacing but also the extruded filament amount. Some filaments are more viscous than others, also a different color can change that, not much but noticeable on such defects on closed surfaces...
    I normally print with "auto width" which defaults to 0.48mm for a 0.4mm nozzle. You normally increase the extrusion width over you nozzle diameter because of the effect that the extruded line tends to widen right after the nozzle even if you just extrude at a perfect temperature or feedrate... So the printed line is thicker than the nozzle's diameter and so need more material and so the flow is increased.
    But this is limited by the viscosity of the filament, some flow better some not so good.
    For some filaments I use value of 0.42 to 0.46, I play with the values but you have to know what you are doing because this setting has two aspects as I described above: line spacing AND extruded amount...
     
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  18. Henry feldman

    Henry feldman Well-Known Member

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    @Alex9779 I note that the default nozzle width is 0.35. Is there reason it's not 0.4?
     
  19. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    Where is it 0.35?
     
  20. TimV

    TimV Well-Known Member

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