First Print with Edge and Volcano looks melted

Discussion in 'Calibration, Help, and Troubleshooting' started by Old_Tafr, Oct 18, 2017.

  1. Old_Tafr

    Old_Tafr Well-Known Member

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    My very first print with Edge using Slic3r (not S3D) temps 240/80 with first layer 245/85 using Uhu glue.

    BigBox Dual original firmware with Volcano 0.8 mm 0.6mm layer height

    Used slic3r for the first time downloaded it yesterday, nothing changed from the "simple" setup

    Imported an stl file for a Pi case.

    I have not done a PID tune for a while and not since the Volcano fitted, but observing temp it only varied one or two degrees.

    The print worked but at all staged it looked like it had been warmed with a heat gun and had started to melt. It is also slightly stringy. One straight edge 3" long is not too bad but castellated parts have all the corners melted looking...........will post a photo later

    The Volcano was wearing a sock too !

    I now need to start changing things but what to change first as I only want to change one thing at a time.

    Print only took 38 min so easy to do a number of test prints.

    Bed temp I think is ok at 80oC after first layer

    Nozzle temp may be too high at 240oC after first layer.

    Retraction may be too little?

    Or ?
     
    #1 Old_Tafr, Oct 18, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2017
  2. AndyVirus

    AndyVirus Well-Known Member

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    Do you have a photo yet?

    I use Volcano's with 0.4mm Hardened nozzles and duet so not a direct corelation but ill try and help as my first Volcano experiances were a bit melty.

    What speed are your movements? PETG/Edge/Colorfab_ht I found stays warm and soft for longer but nothing that should be terrible or even that noticeable.

    I found that with Volcano setting the extruder width to the exact diameter of the nozel, in my case 0.40, extrusion multiplier to 0.9 retraction to 40mmps instead of 70mmps and 2mm retraction gave me good results. Added a 5mm wipe to help with stringing and no fan (or a tiny amount) helped the most with stringing.
     
  3. Old_Tafr

    Old_Tafr Well-Known Member

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    Been doing a little experimentation with temperature and extrusion multiplier, the latter via the front panel so it may not be doing what I think it is, but hit a limitation of slic3r when moving an object away from the centre of the bed.

    Either my figures for the bed or something in slic3r does not like moving an object (I'm being lazy and not replacing the bed after a chunk of the glass came out on a previous print) I moved the print to the right and it hits the perimeter (that it prints first) laid round the print so it thinks it has hit it's limit. But what it did print looks better, it does not look melted i.e. runny, but also some other effects as if a part of the fan or the Z sensor are smoothing out the print, not sure a photo of this will show what is happening.

    I had decided to print on a raft and at 240 first layer and 80 bed, with 0.95 extrusion it way laying down very well, but (as above) as it hit the edge of the printed area it overlaid one layer onto another rather than next to it. The solution is simple, change the bed, or maybe just turn it over, then level again.

    I think that lower temp, 235 not 240 and with extrusion cut down towards 0.9 (I will do it via slic3r next time) will provide a much better print.
     
  4. Old_Tafr

    Old_Tafr Well-Known Member

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    DSCF3648.JPG
    Layer height 0.6mm nozzle 0.8 mm, Multiplier 0.90, Retraction 40 mmps, 2 mm retraction no fan cooling. Maximum speed 60 mmps, except for moves at 120 mmps which causes very very fine stringing which isn't a problem.

    Also temp 230/80 235/85 for first layer, the raft. Lowering the temp from the recommended 240 to 230 does not really make an appreciable difference. Although there are some gaps especially round the oval holes, increasing the multiplier would seem the wrong way to go.

    The first and second layer of the raft are quite good, even and smooth with no blobs. In general straight or slightly continuous edges are fine, but small holes and particularly the final surface is messy as if the nozzle is dragging through the surface and still with a melted like appearance.

    I have redone PID tuning and bed levelling, using Uhu glue works well, spread cold with a little water and a toothbrush and left to dry.

    I would reduce the temp further but the 2 cm x 5 mm ovals don't stick to the raft very well and some but not all of the small holes have some of the filament lifting, oddly the first comes out bad but others are ok.

    Layer height of 0.6 mm with 0.8 mm nozzle is the E3D recommendation, but there again so is 240oC and I'm now at 230oC without problems. I'm wondering if changing the layer height would help?
     

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    #4 Old_Tafr, Nov 2, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2017
  5. AndyVirus

    AndyVirus Well-Known Member

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    what is your extrusion width? i set mine to nozel size not auto width.
    also i also tend to print as far away from the last layer as possible so increasing layer hight might help alot with petg based filaments. Kind of printing in mid air a tiny bit so the next layer is not squished by the nozel in any way.

    so on my 0.4mm nozzel i use something like 0.3250 layer hight with petg based.

    i think due to reduced presure you also need to reduce extrusion width to 0.60 instead of what auto sets it to which would be 0.72 i think on auto.
     
  6. Old_Tafr

    Old_Tafr Well-Known Member

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    Thanks...

    I have extrusion width in slic3r set to "auto" I will try setting to 0.80 (and variations) and give it a try.

    Increasing the layer height (from 0.6 mm) sounds good too as this may be why the final layer looks like the nozzle dragged it around, but... the layer height for the first layer is 0.35 and this looks very good, but I guess it is because it's a hard and hot surface it's printing on not another layer of filament.

    One step at a time until I can see some improvement.

    If all else fails I will ignore E3D's advice on using slic3r and back to Simplify3D

    The base of a Pi case is also quite a severe test for a large nozzle as it has all sorts of shapes that are only one or two widths wide so the melting effect does not help them at all. If all else fails then back to some basic shapes for some simpler testing.
     
  7. Old_Tafr

    Old_Tafr Well-Known Member

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    Ran a few tests using S3D, a long way from perfect but like moving from night into day compared to slic3r.

    I don't want to knock slic3r as I may have a setting that causes the Z axis to move so much but I can't figure out what that could be.

    So with S3D...

    Using coast at end
    Retraction 1.5 mm 1800 mm/min
    Wipe nozzle

    Extrusion multiplier 0.9 (changed to 0.87 as below with no improvement to the holes and bosses)

    With slic3r the Z axis motors were oscillating the bed up and down like crazy (less than a 1/4 of a turn of the threaded rod) when just making one pass of a few inches say in the Y direction, and the extruder was printing in mid air for one 3" curved pass resulting in the filament missing the print and landing on the bed. I moved the print 90o to see if the problem stayed at that physical location on the bed but it moved around with the print so related to the slicer not the bed.

    With S3D no such Z motor movement, slight movement due to the bed levelling parameters but that is all.

    Flat surfaces really good with 0.8 mm Volcano nozzle, 0.6 layer height and auto width. 220oC and 80oC bed, multiplier 0.87

    The one real problem is small dia holes ( 4 mm) and bosses 6 mm dia.

    A boss prints far too fast and the nozzle moves away so fast dragging molten filament with it. I have considered slowing down the whole speed from 3600 mm/min to see if this helps but this will slow the whole print.

    One problem is how S3D prints bosses, these are 6 mm dia with a 1.5 mm hole and about 5 mm high. Of the four bosses on the inside corners of a rectangle the two nearest print differently from the far two as follows...

    The near two print with one clockwise movement and immediately one anti-clockwise movement, this considering the 0.8 mm Volcano nozzle and 0.6 layer height print amazingly well.

    The far two bosses print with FOUR continuous movements, cw, acw, cw, acw. This results in a mess of soft filament as the layers don't have time to cool before the next layer is printed. I don't see any possible setting in S3D to prevent this. I have now slowed the x/y movement speed from 6000 to 2000 mm/min so that individual circles printed don't have the nozzle move away at the speed of light.

    I have also increased the "coasting distance" from 0.2 mm to 0.4 mm to try and stop the pulling of melted filament and stringing (stringing is noticeably absent otherwise) when printing a small circle on a flat surface.

    Above didn't make any difference to creating small holes and bosses, often the first layer is dragged slightly as the nozzle moves away.

    Slowing the X/Y speed just allows the nozzle to ooze a lot between printing.
     
  8. Old_Tafr

    Old_Tafr Well-Known Member

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    Having got over the printing of holes that had multiple passes in one place causing a very melted and runny mess, by using...

    "Print islands sequentially without optimisation" (this is a lie in Simplify3D !!! SOME it prints sequentially, others it makes two passes on the same boss which exacerbates the problem)

    I still have a first layer problem where I get a ridge in a layer say every 10 passes.

    What happens is let's say we are printing straight lines between to existing prints so needing nine passes backwards and forwards, the gap is filled by nine passes and the tenth sits on top of the ninth forming a ridge.

    I have kept width fixed (0.8) not on auto. Increased first layer height from 75% to 95% (as the volume extruded remains the same this should give a less wide layer) Decreased first layer width from 120% to 100% with little change, It still fills the gap with nine passes, the tenth sitting on top forming a quite pronounced ridge AND coating the nozzle which then wipes wonderfully all round when printing a small circle, making a mess of the "Print islands sequentially without optimisation"
     

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