frowny-face with Edge

Discussion in 'Filament' started by Henry feldman, May 25, 2016.

  1. Henry feldman

    Henry feldman Well-Known Member

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    OK, so not as happy with edge print #3, and for those keeping score so far we have a total adhesion failure, a successful print with pretty good surface quality and then this print! So same settings, bed carefully leveled, 225C/100C on Wolfbite for PETG. There are 2 problems with this print (surface kind of sucks on the rotating part, but that's the least of the issues, mechanically it works well and rotates and ratchets properly at least).

    The part warped in the XY axis!
    Seriously? As in the edge of the rectangle is not straight like the other 3 edges (ironic filament name in this case)... I have noticed I can vary a lot of things on high temperature prints by moving around the bed, as the heating is not as even as you would hope, and I suspect that this is a heating issue? But hardly usable if I can't put things arbitrarily on the bed.. Not sure why the surface is so poor (the one I printed yesterday looked way better) on the second part (while looking good on the first part printed 10mm away)

    [​IMG]

    As the part was cooling I heard the tinkling cracking sound, and of course when the part came up (nicely detached with 2 fingers worth of pressure so wasn't over-adhered). That is one big-assed chip! (and yes, it is embedded in my part). And yes, that is the replacement bed for the LAST ONE THAT CHIPPED (luckily bought yet another spare for when that one failed). So far not impressed with the high-temp failure rate of these beds (considering I had parts from E3D with glass chips in them too).

    [​IMG]

    @mike01hu you seem to have had more successes...

    @elmoret do you have beds in stock so I can US ship them?
     
  2. elmoret

    elmoret Administrator

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    Yup! Beds in stock, and glass available separately.

    Don't forget you can flip the glass over and use the backside.
     
  3. Henry feldman

    Henry feldman Well-Known Member

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    At the rate I am going, I will also use the sides?? :rolleyes:
     
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  4. Miasmictruth

    Miasmictruth Well-Known Member

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    At risk of repeating myself too many times. I am coating in 3d-Eez, Mostly printing in PETG and a few in EDGE so far. I have not at 1 chip

    Not to say its perfect nor have I printed as much as you I think but you might consider it. As long as my mesh bed level is correct I have had 0 bed adhesion or chip issues.
     
  5. Chase.Wichert

    Chase.Wichert Well-Known Member

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    I don't think edge requires 100C bed temp, just 80... but I am still working on figuring edge out as well.
     
  6. mike01hu

    mike01hu Well-Known Member

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    Not good Henry! I am printing CF20 at the moment and I am having dribbling problems (not me, the nozzle). Your problem is more serious and I would start with the bed temperature, which is too high; I would say 70C is adequate, bring your nozzle temp down by 5C and try a different adhesive on the bed or none at all but very clean, also do let it cool right down before removing the items. I use a razor blade under a corner to start the lift if it doesn't pop off and I'm still using my PVA juice! The left hand image is strange as I have never had that type of distortion, it has always been in the Z-plane with warp; it may be a slicing issue. I assume you are printing the round part on its side as the layering indicates but the finish is not good. I think I would want to reappraise the design and consider a multipart item.
     
  7. Henry feldman

    Henry feldman Well-Known Member

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    Mike the weird thing was it just came off with 2 fingers (e.g. not super stuck down). The 100C came from the Wolfbite bottle.

    As for the finish, the one before it in edge printed great (smooth) which is so frustrating. I just reprinted the same file again?!?!
     
  8. Henry feldman

    Henry feldman Well-Known Member

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    At least if it was you, I'd know how to solve that! ;)
     
  9. mike01hu

    mike01hu Well-Known Member

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    You now know why there are days when you hate 3D printing. I'm heading for bed as I can no longer sit watching the first layer going down to catch the first dribble that inevitably deposits itself on the perimeter creating a lump that the nozzle bounces over and pushes it sideways!!! I am playing with speed and extrusion but this damned stuff just collects on the nozzle no matter what I try. At GBP51 including tax and shipping for 750g, I am rescuing items from going in the bin! Each part is in excess of 100g and I'm not being paid for this:(!
     
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  10. Henry feldman

    Henry feldman Well-Known Member

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    In frustration last night after another crappy looking edge snot-ball, decided to try out Colorfabb-XT (amphora) and first tried gluestick per the direction, and so far I have yet to have anything (heck including my leveling paper) stick to gluestick. Maybe I am doing it wrong? Anyway reverted back to Wolfbite (@elmoret I did flip the glass). Amphora on Wolfbite printed perfectly although again I have to change tolerances (this is annoying every plastic change) since while I could get the rotating part on, the compression ring held it so tight onto the teeth it's frozen in place vertically. (note the apparent lack of squareness on the part at the top is due to the iPhone's wide-angle not the part). I agree @mike01hu on playing around with a slower speed, but given drooling, am somewhat concerned with slow speed causing worse drool marks?

    [​IMG]
     
  11. mike01hu

    mike01hu Well-Known Member

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    @Henry feldman That looks better! How about the flow rate? I know that you have done extruder calibration but I do find that I have to tweak the settings to get a better result which you can do on the fly through the Tune menu, as it does change from one filament to the next, even different colours of the same filament.
     
  12. Henry feldman

    Henry feldman Well-Known Member

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    I was running at 0.9 for the ratio. I think again this has to do with shrinkage percentages. When I print the exact same settings (except nozzle temp) for edge the part fits quite loosely while in amphora it is super tight (had to use a bar clamp to get it over the compression ring). Stupidly I didn't measure it with a micrometer, and now I can't get them apart to measure it to see what the shrinkage is. Well I guess I will print another later.
     
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  13. Miasmictruth

    Miasmictruth Well-Known Member

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    Is that round part really as lumpy as it looks ornis that a trick of the camera?

    Looks over extruded which will play havoc with your tolerances
     
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  14. R Design

    R Design Well-Known Member

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    @Henry feldman it's difficult to tell from photos but it looks as though in each case it's the upper layers of the parts that come out poorly and a bit like molten ice-cream. Those are also the smaller layers (pyramidal-type parts).

    In the Cooling tab of S3d have you got the setting "Adjust printing speed for layers below 15secs" activated?

    (When you slice a print in the preview window you can switch to see the part coloured by "movement speed" which is pretty interesting and it should be going blue towards the top.)

    So that smaller layers are printed much more slowly to assure the part has time to cool between swipes of the nozzle.

    Also have you got a decent amount of fan going for those smaller / slower layers?

    Just a thought!
     
  15. Henry feldman

    Henry feldman Well-Known Member

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    I have a fair amount of fan (60% - didn't want runaway), although of course since "the incident" I only have 1 fan (until I get a few minutes to do the hybrid conversion).

    In edge it certainly is that lumpy, in amphora it is just the usual zits from S3D random starts

    I may be printing too fast, so may slow that down a tad (was at 40) but in amphora looked so much better.
     
  16. Chris Toast

    Chris Toast Well-Known Member

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    I've had a few trials and tribulations learning the sweet spots with edge. I'll see if I can sum up what I've found so far <for me>
    • No fan on the first layer! 40% fan on second and above
    • Excellent success with Avery brand Disappearing Color Glue Stick
      • Some times smoothed in using a water mister and then bare fingers on cold glass
      • Clean the glue with paper towel and alcohol in between prints
      • Finish cleaning with windex multisurface (with vinegar) and a lint free
    • Phenomenal part release only when cold
    • Edge warps easily if you are printing too hot
      • Still haven't found a perfect sure-fire warp solution-close but occasional corner lift
    • My sweet spots are around 220/70 but first layer goes down at 230
    • Fatten up the first layer, slow to 50% stock
      • Did I mention no fan on the first layer?
      • I've had warping mostly due to heating it up too high and may find that even lower print temps yield better results-need to play with this a bit more still
      • Too low (~205) and it will almost certainly not adhere to the glass
    • Stringing/ooze management is challenging
      • I almost always get a glob of slag at the start of the brim that sometimes interferes with the print
      • After initial gob on the brim, almost non-existent on the print itself
      • Retraction settings are 5mm, extra restart .25 and maybe some vertical lift
      • Edge does not bridge as well as some other materials I've played with
        • Possibly fan position issues
      • Its really messy on that print head-c'mon e3d with the silicone nozzle booties
      • Magnitudes more difficult (for me at least) to print at really high resolutions (<=.15)
    • This stuff is strong and has a great finish on a successful prints-I'm liking it more and more despite its eccentricities
    • The outer perimeter walls look awesome and without zits/globs.
    • Interior spaces like screw holes tend to have some stringing
    YMMV
     
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  17. R Design

    R Design Well-Known Member

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    I'd kind of forgotten about it but S3d does offer auto-configuration for well known printers and filaments.

    The plan was always that BigBox S3d would auto-configure from their server.

    (And of course if it did Edge would be in there.)

    Any chance of this still happening ?
     
  18. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    I don't know what you expect. They have profiles built in you can load for a lot of printers. All of those have some auto config set up but the values are not perfect. The UM2 profile is horrible and didn't work any good for me...
    There are not real good values for the materials only generic values not for a specific brand. The quality settings are the same there are only three. And for the dual machines there are some extruder settings but also not thought to the end.
    All those profiles are a good starting point but that's all...
    There is no server profile or a centralized management of profiles.
    The auto configuration is cool but you can setup yourself. That's what I did in my profiles. I am open to suggestions. This is not something I wanted to do alone. That's why it is on Github.
    Fork, branch, change, pull request, discuss, merge. Just like is works for the base Marlin. Don't be shy...
     
  19. R Design

    R Design Well-Known Member

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    In fact I wasn't looking for any profiles myself right now.

    But I am concerned about all the BB users who seem to be having difficulties with Edge.

    It's actually slightly ridiculous: given that Edge is "supposed" to be easy to print and given that the BB is "supposed" to come with a bunch of ready to go profiles!

    So I'm just thinking that it's time that this actually happened.

    And given that S3d is the slicer of choice for the BB and given that S3d offers auto configuration via a repository on their Server, it seems reasonable to think that somebody in Oxfordshire will get in touch with someone at S3d to get the prepared profiles uploaded to the server. Probably ASAP.

    I'd sort of expect their to be PLA.

    And I'd certainly expect their to be Edge. (Which they've been printing successfully for months if not years.)

    Hmm

    You're right I do seem to have lots of expectations!

    ;-)
     
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  20. Miasmictruth

    Miasmictruth Well-Known Member

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    With the right surface coating I have had no warp with EDGE or adhesion issues with EDGE, I lowered the printing temp to 205 and it seems to have helped with much of the stringiness along with a good amount of coast, I do lay down the first layer hot (225 for me) then drop to 205. I am still playing with settings though, this has almost no clean up, just a brushed off a some loose fibers on the outside of the wings. Between the rear legs there are some strings that are not showing up well in the photo but should be easy to remove, got rid of 99% of the globs printed at 0.1mm layers

    Aria.png
     
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