frowny-face with Edge

Discussion in 'Filament' started by Henry feldman, May 25, 2016.

  1. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    That's what they say. Have no experience myself yet.

    Who said that? The firs profiles are... ummm.... well.... Not for a beginner to use may be the right expression...
    The dual had auto configuration but not working. Only one selection worked the others did not.
    The "Guinea pigs" profile was just for the oozing script. The rest of it was just to get he machine going...

    Where's that? Help me, I didn't find that yet...

    A little bit too much IMHO.

    Let me ask three questions:
    1. Did we get a serious update on the first released profiles?
    2. Did we get a serious update for the firmware of the V1.0? Officially the firmware is still stuck at RC3 with all its bugs hard to handle for a beginner in 3D printing or even Marlin.
    3. Do we have an official firmware for the Hybrid other than what Greg pushed out which had bugs in it (Z steps were not correct)?
     
  2. Henry feldman

    Henry feldman Well-Known Member

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    Alex, during the campaign they did say there would be sorted out S3D profiles (which was part of the reason to get S3D)
     
  3. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    Sorry to say but they are way behind their promises.
    A good profile is about half a day of work to get the machine details in there. Look at mine.
    Finding the right material settings is a bit more work because you can't design those on the table, you gotta do tests.
    The machine design is over a year old now, they did a lot of tests.
    Actually I was a bit confused not to say shocked when I first saw the released profile, I expected way more but E3D didn't deliver so I did it myself... At least for their own materials (E3D stuff). That's what I would have released because if I was E3D if would use my own filaments for everything where I need a lot of filament because it would be the cheapest for me I assume.
     
  4. Henry feldman

    Henry feldman Well-Known Member

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    I totally agree. If they released profiles for their own stuff, nobody would blame them for not having other people's filaments (I mean that is an infinite quantity). Without you we'd have buggy firmware too. It's great that they are working on new stuff, but time to pause for a few days and fix the little stuff (and maybe reconcile the documentation so it's all one stream, instead of looking for tons of patches/corrections in other documents).
     
  5. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    Just to add another thing: I am very pleased with the machine, with the design and the ideas.

    I am bit confused with the stuff around: community management, firmware, profiles...

    It is an open source project the community is an important part and I think we show that there is a lot going on. Greg mentioned my work but we desperately need a landing page helping beginners. And to talk about the wiki, I think it is getting messy, all the very long pages are hard to overlook, for th user and much more for the one who has to edit and check the stuff.
    It is like programming, you try to split everything into small portions each doing one single small part easy to check, easy to maintain, easy to debug.
    On the CodeMaid scale for method compexity (that's a tool I use when I work with Visual Studio for cleaning up code and stuff) the build manual would be red, dark red, so dark red, red... Oh it would be red....

    And all the confusion at the moment with the KS version, the hybrid, the Titan...
    People wait for something from E3D... IMHO it would also be ok to promote the work of the community a bit more, couldn't be that much work to check for examples my firmware or profiles for conformity with E3D standards and just copy it making it official. Or maybe just to get in touch to tell some guidelines and let me do the work. I spent a lot of time for the firmware and the profiles so far and I am convinced they do what they should but they lack the official taste.
    I don't know what all the seances freaks like Livi do with their firmwares and profiles, but they are not in a sharing mood. We had one other guy making the firmware for the Pro and some who shared their profiles but nothing complete like mine (I really hate talking about myself, believe me)...

    But I would do the same as a normal user, buying something then I do not wanna use some thing form any guy, I want a commitment of the manufacturer before I use such a thing,
     
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  6. Miasmictruth

    Miasmictruth Well-Known Member

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    We all thankyou for your hard work Alex, I almost think that you have done such a good job that E3D has let your work stand as standard and as such hasn't released anything more specific.

    I can release my Edge profile but I don't think it's ready yet.

    Maybe as a community we can assign some tasks to individuals that are willing and capable, to produce information, profiles standards ect.
     
  7. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    We can do all this but with a little support of E3D this would be a lot easier for us, like some more moderators for the forum...

    Please don't thank me too much, I really really hate that like I hate being congratulated to my birthday on which I like to drive away, not going to work and see anyone just because of that.
    I like to share my knowledge, I like to learn, to grow my knowledge...
    And beliebe me I am a bit disappointed... When the box was new there were build hangouts, discussions, some documentation and help from the very first people who had the box.
    @JvdP continued with some great mods and guides, @JohnEsc did his thing contributing his experiences. But anything else than some breadcrumbs from the initial "BigBox Stars"... I am a bit disappointed... Seems some people like to show off what they can but are not dedicated to share at least a bit of their knowledge so other can achieve the same stuff...
     
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  8. R Design

    R Design Well-Known Member

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    @Alex9779 I share your views and approach on birthdays. I've been doing it for so long now that people finally leave me alone.

    In S3d in the Help menu there's a "configuration assistant"... I think that, as well as setting up things like build volume, it also downloads print profiles (if they exist). I may be wrong!
     
  9. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    Oh you're right! Just cut my network and got this, look at the red text:
    Bildschirmfoto 2016-05-27 um 23.46.28.png

    But again, I checked several profiles, they are all somehow the same on the auto configure options... Only the scripts are different and for the UM2 the scripts are not what you would expect if you come from Cura to S3D because of the Ulti-G-Code Ultimaker uses with Cura... The scripts do what I necessary to get a print off but are not the best...

    And the "official" profiles are, sorry to say, also a mess...
     
  10. JohnEsc

    JohnEsc Well-Known Member

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    I took my Colorfabb XT profile, created a new profile using those settings to start and changed the temps to 205/70 and used no fan for the 1st two layers and then 50% for 3rd layer and higher. Looking to do a big print when I get back from my Memorial Day weekend vacation. BTW I didn't have any consistent luck with anything other than the Aqua net hairspray which is the ONLY thing I use now and haven't had issues with warping or lifting, and much simpler cleanup than Glue Stick
     
  11. mike01hu

    mike01hu Well-Known Member

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  12. R Design

    R Design Well-Known Member

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    I remember when a little Sharebot Kiwi arrived at the Fablab and I was the first to use it out of the box.

    The Simplify3d profile (from the Simplify3d server) was a disaster: the build space was totally wrong.

    I posted in the Simplify Forum and somebody immediately suggested that I contact Sharebot in Italia.

    Within 2 weeks Sharebot had corrected the Simplify3d profile on the Simplify server and released a new batch of profiles for Cura et al..

    Why wouldn't they?
     
  13. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    Maybe they have no good profile for publishing? No one to take care of that? Only special dialed in profiles for their tests and print farm?
     
  14. Henry feldman

    Henry feldman Well-Known Member

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    I think the problem is the E3D guys believe that a "hackable" printer is the same as "requires hacking to work". When someone proposes a hack to fix basic functionality (like @Alex9779 fixing the firmware) they view that as "oh good, the community is adding new functionality for themselves" as opposed to the reality which is "oh, we for some reason can't fix the flaw to make the printer work so let a customer do it". I mean @Alex9779 so far has created firmware, not to add some awesome new capability, but to make the menus work and things like that. In addition he has created the lifted carriage, not to add some amazing function, but because E3D didn't take a bit of time to come up with a solution that allows the full build volume without cutting the frame. This is basic stuff for the manufacturer that they have to get right. However, now that we've gotten into this hot mess, with the official confusing documentation and a build that doesn't quite work right, in parallel with build tips that correct the documentation in the forums along with fixed firmware and hardware by Alex among others, they have to step in. If I was building a new BB now, and hadn't been totally active in the forums I would be seriously confused. There are also some KS backers who likely aren't active on the forums and are unaware of the community generated patches and are probably thinking this is a mediocre printer... They need to pause generating the next great idea, and spend a week reconciling the firmware, CAD design and documentation.
     
  15. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    Great write up Henry, that's exactly what I am thinking too...

    Marlin dev team did, I found some bugs making life easier, I moved the BB config to higher version of the firmware, yes. And I maintain several branches for several setups...

    Just for us "poor" kickstarters to get at least near the full build volume...

    IMHO the build guide needs a serious overhaul. It was ok for the KS campaign, there was only two options how you could build the machine but now the long (very long) pages are confusing, not maintainable to keep up the quality.
     
  16. Henry feldman

    Henry feldman Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, that's why I sent you that message yesterday, since I can't imagine using the BB as it stands now at work... looking forward to your thoughts.
     
  17. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    Ya sorry read it. Still thinking about the answer...
     
  18. mike01hu

    mike01hu Well-Known Member

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    I see where you are coming from and I suspect I have been too protective of the company in my comments, knowing their size and makeup. It is clear that they have over-reached themselves with the BigBox but have singularly failed to take on board the market views at the early stages, then releasing an update before the backers had even received their kit.

    The warnings were there at the start with the first builders' frustrations over the build manual, the calibration and the regular requests for support that were answered with partly unfulfilled promises to fix the manual and that which was done being only in a half-hearted way. A lot of pressure was put on people like Livi to be successful and, despite fancy on-line tutorial sessions, the lessons were not carried forward in a satisfactory manner, if at all. Then, we had the bushing saga that still rumbles on (sorry!) but with no relevant input from the company.

    I, and I suspect many others with a reasonably solid engineering background viewed these as not a great issues because we could "see around the corners" but there are those out there that have little or no relevant experience and this project was surely not for them. Also, there are those of us, me included to a certain extent as it's too far in my past, who find it not so easy to address the firmware issues or do not have the confidence to attack them. OctoPrint, Marlin, networking, wireless and their integration is a manual in its own right and would be fearsome to some of our members. It is the members that are rescuing the project, which I feel is worthy of rescue.

    Hmm, I've said this about Simplify 3D! Sorry for the rant.
     
  19. Henry feldman

    Henry feldman Well-Known Member

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    I think the challenge is that we are used to their prior reputation of building bullet proof high-end hot-ends. They basically could have put this out as a hackable 3D printing platform with our great hot end. If they had done that I think we'd all have been expecting what we got. Instead they used words like "fully sorted". Below is not fully sorted (yes some is my fault, but a lot isn't). I've had 3 failures in 2 days where halfway up a perfect part (in XT) it suddenly loses track of it's Y location by about 2cm (once it did it twice on the same build) and I ended up with a step shaped part (and it is really confused, it docked way in front of the dock). Fully sorted isn't a 58% success rate. I am waiting for my Misumi bearings since the original E3D ones were busted (3 DOA) and the replacements I got so I could finish the printer are meh...

    [​IMG]
     
  20. mike01hu

    mike01hu Well-Known Member

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    As we are in the filament section I'll stick to the topic:eek: But don't get me wrong, I am fairly happy with the performance of my printer with CF20 and I am on a 100% success rate apart from snot drops, some due to the loose nozzle and others due to pick up that I have tried to correct with flow rate but without much luck, the results are usable and don't look too bad. You are right in that we expected E3D performance from this kit and it isn't making it yet. I'll try to control my rants:D
     

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