frowny-face with Edge

Discussion in 'Filament' started by Henry feldman, May 25, 2016.

  1. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    Nah go on. I started this but I am a little upset and annoyed at the moment...
     
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  2. Dr Jeep

    Dr Jeep Well-Known Member

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    I agree and I am not having great luck with Edge at the moment either, they aren't doing very well at running the community at all at the moment. The intermittent comms was one indication and E3D staff aren't overly responsive to forum threads, in fact in some cases they were more responsive on the Google forum they kept telling us not to use.

    My printer is generally stable but only good because of efforts of others here like Alex. I absolutely expected more on the profiles front and frankly not having dialled in profiles for all the E3D stocked filaments is a huge miss in terms of marketing/sales opportunity IMO. I bought the S3D upgrade expressly because it was indicated that this would be well supported by E3D. There should be a good "stock" profile in the auto-configuration thing, they sold enough of S3D they must have some sort of B2B relationship with the guys to sort this.

    The lights at the end of the tunnel for me are:

    a. My printer is more or less behaving itself and without doubt is capable of outperforming my old one

    b. I have a vague hope the community situation will get better once they get through this pre-order backlog and have more time to look at it, but really at the moment the community is in a dubious position I feel (low percentage of highly active members doing their best with little support)

    c. They have sold a lot of printers on pre-prder, so the pressure for them to finish debugging some of this stuff is going to get bigger.
     
  3. Spoon Unit

    Spoon Unit Well-Known Member

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    What I expected (coming from M3D)
    • Faster printing
    • Bigger print area
    • Dual print material capability
    • More accurate prints
    • Better overall printing firmware
    I got all of that

    What I didn't expect
    • 3D printing would have gotten any easier
    I got what I expected there too. I think 3D printing remains fundamentally challenging and those who go into it expecting it to be a walk in the park are either bright enough to simply-, or stubborn enough to eventually-, overcome the mass of challenges and the steep learning curve, or they are in for some serious let down.

    This doesn't let anyone off the hook for the build manual. It really should be the manufacturers product as much as the machine and its parts. Ideally it needs breaking into individual sections and then those sections can be linked to in whatever order is necessary for each of the derivatives. Any sections which are coming soon should actually come sooner. That said, I think they're a victim of their own success here. There's a vast difference in the total challenge of making 100 printers to 1000 printers. There's no easy scaling mechanism and I think they've near enough had a melt down from the size of the challenge.

    Greg seems to have been, almost from day one, the person doing the most for the community. He's on the forum a fair bit. He's in running the print farm. He wrote a lot of the manual and is the "star" of many of the videos. He attended many of the hangouts people hosted. Josh and Sanjay are occasional visitors of the forum, Josh more recently so since the pre-order thread went nuclear. All in all, I'm happy to give Greg a lot of slack as he's just the champion of it all as far as I can see. Without him, I suspect we wouldn't be anywhere near where we are.

    I would also love to see a bit more input from E3D team regarding the best setup for printing all their materials.It's possible the detail is already hid within the mass of posts on the forum. It's hard to say; it's quickly getting hard to find things on the forum even when you know you posted something yourself. I'd really like to be able to go into a "Filament" forum then into a specific filament type, say Edge, and see a sticky at the top managed by the filament community leader, that pulls the best information we have on that filament type. Right now, good look finding any consistent information on how to set up your printer for, say, Edge.

    So yeh - many things could be better, but I still think this is great printer and I'm really happy with what it can do.
     
  4. elmoret

    elmoret Administrator

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    Just popping in to say that I'm sure E3D will be along shortly in this thread - keep in mind that it was posted Wednesday and wasn't really fully detailed until Friday. Then it was the weekend and today is a holiday in the UK.

    It is rare that you get top level engineers doing customer support at all in a company, and that is exactly what Josh/Sanjay/Greg do - but they do have other job responsibilities too. I'd much rather at least get replies from top level engineers even if not immediate, as compared to a company like Apple where you're lucky to get someone that has even used the product.

    Additionally, I saw folks asking for more moderators. I'm a moderator/admin, and happy to implement anyone's requests if they are brought to my attention. So far the only request I've seen was for a filament sub forum, which I've created.
     
    #44 elmoret, May 31, 2016
    Last edited: May 31, 2016
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  5. Mark_T

    Mark_T Well-Known Member

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    If they don't want to, or can't spare the time for this, then they need someone else who can...

    Threads like this are worrying for more recent purchasers like myself.

    I didn't buy a 'Kickstarter' I bought what was supposed to be a properly sorted and supported product from a supposedly reputable company, but the deeper I get into this the more it feels like the company is 'winging it' and the support is entirely community based right down to the firmware...

    If you can't even rely on the build manual to be representative of the kit you've been sent then nothing good follows...

    Serious question guys, I asked when I first got here if this was a suitable purchase for a newcomer to 3D printing and was told 'yes'.

    I'm having doubts now, once again, is this really a suitable purchase for someone with no previous 3D printing experience?
     
  6. Spoon Unit

    Spoon Unit Well-Known Member

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    @Mark_T , I believe @JohnEsc was a total newcomer when he bought this printer, so his guidance might be the best.
     
  7. JohnEsc

    JohnEsc Well-Known Member

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    @Mark_T as @Spoon Unit mentioned the BigBox was my first dive into 3D printing. I had never completed a 3D print before my 1st Benchy on the BigBox. From the start, I knew the BigBox was exactly what I was looking for... big build volume, open source, reputable company, focus on easy manual and videos to guide the build, and the leader in the hotend industry making a printer just sounded too good to be true and I always love Bang for my Buck!

    About being an early backer:
    Finding the BigBox early in its campaign meant I was one of the first 2 dozen people to receive it in hand, there were a couple of drawbacks (having to dismantle the heated bed to drill holes, print new replacement parts, and replace rods) however, everything was well-guided and I already knew that with this printer being a KS printer it was only going to get better once it was in the users' hands. I found the manual to be very simple to follow during my build and yes there were some annoyances at times, missing a couple items, wrong screw sizes in labeled bags. E3D customer service was quick to respond to the missing items and once I had the issue with the wrong size screws, I just made sure to measure and label the bags myself. The manual now includes videos which has made confusing parts of the build much less complex. Those of you starting your build now are in much better shape than I was to start. I am so fortunate to have selected the kit cause having ordered the assembled printer and trying to figure out upgrades or fixes after the fact is much more difficult in my opinion. Will you experience doubts... I would say ABSOLUTELY! It wasn't a cheap $350 3D printer! When you're ready to bang your head against a wall... take a break, clear your head, research, contact support if the forums aren't working for you, do what you can to get past that task so you can face the very next challenge that 3D printing has to offer.

    About the G+ community and the forum:
    If it were not for the phenomenal people helping and sharing each and everyday in the communities, I would have struggled quite a bit. Every time I had a hair-pulling day, there was someone to provide some simple advice: change the temp, lower the layer height, add an Astrosyn damper, just a wealth of resources being shared... pics, videos, links to other resourceful sites. This was something I was NOT expecting but could only hope for. All I can say is Research, Research, Research I have learned so much in these forums the past few months that people at work are WOW'd by my results in such short time. Some days I had to just walk away from the printer, do some research and come back to it with a clear head. It's still like that now when I'm successfully printing consistently and then struggle with a model. However, I have added MeshMixer and Netfabb to my arsenal of apps as recommended here to deal with errors in models. I agree with @elmoret that I find @Greg Holloway helping on this forum and G+ community more than I would have expected, sometimes even @Clare - E3D pops in :) However, take into consideration the backgrounds of the forum members with engineering and design backgrounds and I know I'm in good hands with their help as well. Ultimately, you have to find what works best for you... so many people recommend glue stick... I hated it! Still had warping and cleanup sucked. Hairspray works for me and that's what I've stuck with, without issue. BTW if RichRap recommended it or did it, so did I (facing the motor wires in different directions, adding the packing foam beneath the printer). You can learn so much just from his videos and analyzing his photos. It would be beneficial to all of us to see other members of the E3D team get on and shoot off a few replies to help us all out to clear up concerns, make suggestions, and to show that they are appreciative of the members on this forum that are doing great things for the future of the BigBox.

    About E3D and firmware/hardware updates:
    It was my choice to add an Astrosyn damper cause mine didn't receive it. It was my choice to begin replacing the bearings with the Misumi bearings. I have spent more money than I would have liked to on this machine but I felt this BigBox deserved it and after reading and listening to so many others reap the benefits of upgrading, why shouldn't I... LOL I would like to see more involvement from E3D when it comes to firmware updates but this community is blessed to have people such as @Alex9779 and @Chase.Wichert just making magic happen, from loads of firmware updates to entirely different carriage designs... just OUTSTANDING! The firmware updates is something I'm still unsure of but having forum members guide me thru it with their posts and replies makes me feel very confident about my decision.

    I hope that with 900 hours of printing in my BigBox tool belt that I can be of help to others the way so many have helped me move forward in 3D Printing. As a technology instruction specialist I give teachers and students amazing Apple devices to use each and everyday. I instruct and guide them in what the device can do, but ultimately it's what THEY do what the device that matters.
     
  8. Mark_T

    Mark_T Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the perspective John.

    On the one hand it seems you are confirming my fears that this is not the well thought-out and complete printer with strong designer/manufacturer support that it appears to be from the ads, but on the other-hand you are suggesting that it doesn't matter as the support is there from the community anyway...

    As was mentioned earlier, a 'hackable' printer should not mean that you have to hack just to get it working and that is where I get the feeling that E3D have dropped the ball.

    I need to think about this for a while, but I have time as I'm not going to see my order fulfilled for at least another month at the earliest...

    Thanks again for the input.
     
  9. Spoon Unit

    Spoon Unit Well-Known Member

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    If you bought the kit, when you build it, you'll change your mind real quick. It's really incredibly well thought out. Could it be better? Couldn't everything? If the way it all goes together doesn't impress you (once you've figured that part out), I'll need to order some hat sauce.
     
  10. mike01hu

    mike01hu Well-Known Member

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    There are some threads that need to be compulsory reading and this is one of them. It's a pity it's buried down here in the "Filament" section. Perhaps the moderator can move it to the "General discussions" tab. Who is that? I thought @Mike Kelly had some input here.
     
  11. elmoret

    elmoret Administrator

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    Again - I'm a mod/admin, happy to do as folks request. Best to send a PM to me directly to ensure I see it.

    With that said, this thread is about filament, so it belongs in the filament section (which was created at the request of customers).
     
  12. mike01hu

    mike01hu Well-Known Member

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    No it's more of a comment than request but we do seem to spread ourselves around and deviate quite a bit:cool:
     
  13. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    I agree with you, partly :).
    This community is growing and you as a moderator have to figure out how you gonna handle stuff that happens here.
    I know some good moderated forums where the mods really have an eye on the topic of a thread, split topics, close them down if the dicussion runs wild.
    I know that is not easy, a forum is for discussion but also there are rules to obey to make it useable for everyone. People using it regularly and people who only come here to search for help on a specific topic...
     
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  14. Sanjay

    Sanjay Administrator
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    Hi All,

    The recently uploaded profiles on the BigBox GitHub https://github.com/BigBox3D are all configured for Edge by default and are the profiles we use in production and day to day printing here.

    We're seeking to flesh these out with additional profiles for different materials, but in all cases (apart from flexibles) we just adjust the bed temperature and nozzle temperature to the recommended temperatures for that material and crack on. Flexibles require more jiggery pokery, and we'll put up profiles for that shortly.

    I hear you all on the support front - we're making active moves to improve how we support you here on these forums and on the software configuration and settings side of things. All this happening at the same time and racing to get things sent and so forth. Yes we're stretched to the limit, but we're doing our utmost to make good on the commitments we set out. It's taking longer than expected but we're not going to stop until the job is done.

    Cheers,
    Sanjay
     
  15. R Design

    R Design Well-Known Member

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    Fab!

    So "configured for Edge by default" means that the top / default item in the drop-down menu which is "PLA" is in fact "Edge"? Whilst the other options after that (eg ABS) we might take to be what they say, what does the poor fella do who just wants to print PLA?

    Not going to be obvious to newbies, methinks....

    ;-)
     
  16. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    Ya think that is again just a quick push. I will work through all the profiles this weekend and edit them to what they are: profiles for one single setup, the auto configuration options are useless in those profiles because not edited or updated...
    I am going to merge what E3D put up into mine too, so if you want a full featured profile with full auto config working you have to wait until next week or start wit mine and hack the values yourself....
     
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  17. R Design

    R Design Well-Known Member

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    Interestingly (from the profiles)

    direct pro (BB Kickstarter)

    default print speed 50mm/s
    XY speed 100mm/s

    hybrid pro (BB 1.1)
    40mm/s
    XY speed 80mm/s

    Where's the justice in that?!

    Not clear if the Hybrid Pro is supposed to be with or without the Titan??
     
  18. R Design

    R Design Well-Known Member

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    Another thing... it would be nice to see is a profile(s) for the Volcano (s). (At least one!)

    Everyone is guessing and making it up as they go along in what at best is likely to be nothing but a reinvention of the wheel:

    it would be really great to see how the masters and inventors set their retractions and so forth for using these beasts.
     
  19. GBR1

    GBR1 Member

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    Hi All,

    To put this thread slightly back on track:)

    I have burned through approx 15 rolls of Edge now and had no real issues and good print quality. All prints have been at 50 or 60mm/s, bed temp at 80 and nozzle at 240, bed adhesion has been with UHU..

    My glass prep is to fully clean the bed (remove all old glue and then clean with a glass cleaner) between prints. This is standard practice for me anyway..

    This is me asking out of curiosity why people are trying something different (and seem to be having issues) when the recommended settings seem to work really well?

    GBR1
     
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  20. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    Woah I'd like to have so much to print ;)

    Somehow I asked me the same... I have no idea why one methods seems to work on one box and not on the other. I always told here that I have good results with the glue stick method but others seems to have issues with it. Some are able to print on bare glass without warping it seems, I never got a good print with that only with tiny footprints.
    What you describe is the recommended settings printed on the package and they seem to work well for you...
     

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