Guinea Pigs Required!

Discussion in 'Calibration, Help, and Troubleshooting' started by Greg Holloway, Mar 10, 2016.

  1. Spoon Unit

    Spoon Unit Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Messages:
    1,546
    Likes Received:
    481
    Another thought. Nozzle heat for unused tool. From the full bed print, I see quite a bit of evidence of the hot unused nozzle affecting the topmost layer being drawn by the active tool. It's not actually catching it, except perhaps on layer one where there a little more material typically, but the heat of the nozzle is scarring the surface. Two thoughts here. One .. I wonder if passing a hot nozzle at just the right distance, post-print, could give a nice smoothing effect to the top layer of a print. Two .. given the already extended print time for dual prints, what about bring the unused nozzle down, say, 40 degrees so it has less effect. This would probably be sufficient with a set temp, rather than a set and wait, as I don't think the print craps out if the inactive tool wanders off the reservation in terms of temps. Yet another area for investigation looms...
     
  2. Archania

    Archania Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2016
    Messages:
    224
    Likes Received:
    51
    Nice work. I am following this closely and hopefully all will be good to go when I get my dual.
     
  3. Paul Seccombe

    Paul Seccombe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2015
    Messages:
    90
    Likes Received:
    30
    @Spoon Unit , I've just had the same issue you did trying to use as much of the bed as possible. Fortunately I watched the first layer and saw the travel bottom out in X and the belt skip.
    Is this a fault in Simply3d or the profile itself?

    @Greg Holloway I found another issue in the Y axis travel. With Y more than about 187 the Ir Z height sensor hits the dump bucket wiper. Looks like a change in this might be needed (unless I have done something wrong). Can someone else check this?
     
    #83 Paul Seccombe, Mar 19, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2016
  4. Spoon Unit

    Spoon Unit Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Messages:
    1,546
    Likes Received:
    481
    @Paul Seccombe, hitting the dump bucket wiper with the sensor suggests you've got the wiper too high. I've found this needs to be adjusted in minute fractions. Step one, move the dump bucket assemly down slightly. Step two, use your fingers to grab the wiper and pull it very slightly up out of it's holder. This is a simpler adjustment than messing with the screws at the back. Obviously you don't want to pull it too far up, but hopefully you see what I mean.

    Regarding X bottoming out. I think I've simply not found the correct setting yet. The alternative of sizing, then pushing the model is simple enough that I stopped looking for an alternative at that point. One more thought to add here. It's just as valid to print with only the right extruder as it is to print with only the left extruder. If your leveling is dead on, you should have the same results in either case. In this case, your limits become 40 to 300 on the bed. I think you simply have to be aware of what you're trying to do each time. Even after setting up and watching lots of prints, I still find myself checking everything on almost every print. Hopefully, eventually experience (and good profiles) will help speed this up.
     
    #84 Spoon Unit, Mar 19, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2016
  5. Paul Seccombe

    Paul Seccombe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2015
    Messages:
    90
    Likes Received:
    30
    @Spoon Unit thanks. I'll have a play with the wiper after my 48 hour dual print finishes (either in a blaze of glory or complete failure). This is with scaffold and petg. I thought I had the wiper set Ok as it just wipes the nozzles but if you have got it to work then I will have a play.
     
  6. Spoon Unit

    Spoon Unit Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Messages:
    1,546
    Likes Received:
    481
    @Paul Seccombe I seem to have the sensor mounted at the lowest point possible. Not sure if that's right. But for it's definitely close to being in the way. Also with the forward momentum as it moves to the dump, it lowers a touch, and that can cause a slight rub. @Greg Holloway mentioned something about a new wiper design maybe being announced during this weekends festivities at MWRRF, so maybe there's some news to come on the whole wiper/dump design from the BB team.
     
  7. Mike Kelly

    Mike Kelly Volunteer

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2014
    Messages:
    450
    Likes Received:
    93
    E3D does in no way encourage anyone to add a bristle wiper to clean their nozzles.

    wink wink nudge nudge, know what i mean know what i mean?
     
    PsyVision likes this.
  8. PsyVision

    PsyVision Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    Messages:
    798
    Likes Received:
    248
  9. Rob Heinzonly

    Rob Heinzonly Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2015
    Messages:
    448
    Likes Received:
    174
    @PsyVision : That looks good ! What was your printing time ? What was your Tool Change Extra Restart Distance ?
     
  10. PsyVision

    PsyVision Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    Messages:
    798
    Likes Received:
    248
    @Rob Heinzonly I was quite happy with it. The first one failed but this one succeeded. I can't remember the print time as I didn't look at the panel this morning. I can check OctoPrint statistics later maybe? Anyway, Simplify said 3 hours and so it would have been no more than 4. I put my extra restart at -0.3 I think - the same as (you?) mentioned earlier in the thread with the screenshot.

    I observed that during the new tool prime on my right extruder (red) that there would be skipping, I'm not sure if its failing to grip the filament or what, didn't have to diagnose. I awoke to the frog with a beard of strands of red plastic. I perhaps need the wiper slightly higher too (I think that was the _actual_ cause).

    There are a few parts where it doesn't appear to have retracted enough, not sure they can be seen in the photo. I need to look at the toolpath in S3D to understand what it should have been doing.
     
  11. Rob Heinzonly

    Rob Heinzonly Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2015
    Messages:
    448
    Likes Received:
    174
    @PsyVision My restart was indeed -0.3, but I think -0.5 is better.
     
  12. Spoon Unit

    Spoon Unit Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Messages:
    1,546
    Likes Received:
    481
    @PsyVision I wonder how much dumped filament that created? Of course, we're in guinea pig mode here, but for small parts like this, I wonder if an ooze shield wouldn't be the more sensible/economical option.
     
  13. PsyVision

    PsyVision Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    Messages:
    798
    Likes Received:
    248
    You can't see the black so well but:

    [​IMG]

    I noticed that when @Kick2box printed it he had a lot less waste. I wonder if his Slicer profile has different (less) purge/prime amounts?
     
    Mike Kelly likes this.
  14. Spoon Unit

    Spoon Unit Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Messages:
    1,546
    Likes Received:
    481
    Each string there represents a purge, so yeh - it's a lot of purges. I love your new dump bucket design. It's a very similar design to the whole bigbox itself. Seamless !.
     
    mike01hu likes this.
  15. Kick2box

    Kick2box Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2016
    Messages:
    198
    Likes Received:
    27
    For me it were 362 purges. I do with -10/5, for me that's enough. Priming is not yet perfect, I think it needs a retract of -0.3 up to -0.5 at the end. I have a difference of 10 steps/mm between the extruders, to adjust that was the most important thing for me.
     
  16. Syko_Symatic

    Syko_Symatic Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    Messages:
    365
    Likes Received:
    106
    I have completed my first dual print!

    It pretty well aligned but I have that evil seam! Is there a setting I can modify to get it to disappear? I am using the Dual 1.1 profile with having only modified the temps (and offsets or course).

    Also how do I modify the esteps for E1?

    Thanks. Have to give @Spoon Unit some props for that excellent calibration tool!
     

    Attached Files:

  17. PsyVision

    PsyVision Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    Messages:
    798
    Likes Received:
    248
    On the layers tab of your profile set it to use a random point.

    The tool change script has the e-steps setting change.
     
  18. Syko_Symatic

    Syko_Symatic Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    Messages:
    365
    Likes Received:
    106
    Should've seen that thanks. Is there a reason the dual profile gives this seam but the single profile doesn't?
     
  19. Kick2box

    Kick2box Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2016
    Messages:
    198
    Likes Received:
    27
    With the single you won't change that during printing, so it's not required.
     
  20. Spoon Unit

    Spoon Unit Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Messages:
    1,546
    Likes Received:
    481
    Whatever you do, a fact of 3d printing is that your layer will start and finish somewhere. The method of drawing the outline on the layer is largely responsible for seams or zits. Play with options for starting the layer nearest to a specific spot, optimising for speed etc to control seaming. You may also find zlift on retraction, or more or less retraction helps, and maybe also extra restart distance. Think of every printed model's requirements in this area. Could you hide a seam behind the head, or in a corner, or perhaps you're going to sand/paint the model and seams won't matter.
     

Share This Page