Jamming

Discussion in 'E3D-v6 and Lite6' started by johnrygg, Jun 13, 2014.

  1. PLAgoaway

    PLAgoaway Member

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    Just want to make it clear that I was not asked whether or not pictures of the HotEnd I sent in should be posted on to the forums. I would of course have said yes if I was asked, just that my username was left out. Just letting you guys at E3D know :)

    Time to answer questions!

    Thank you, I'm still waiting for the parts but the customer support so far has been really good.

    I have now invested in a set of these. :)

    There is clearly space between the nozzle and heat break. It is not tightened against the heat block.

    You are completely entitled to your own opinion. But you're really not helping anybody with this post are you? Quite the opposite I think.

    Now we all agree that E3D has great customer support, they really do, but now that you've posted pictures of the hotend I think it would be suitable to disclose the email you sent me.

    I've never seen such transparency through customer support, awesome! :) BUT (someone has to do it), you wrote "Replace it for you with an assembled and tested one", but instead you replaced the specific parts which you diagnosed to be faulty. Not exactly what you wrote, and I know I'm really nitpicking here but I don't think you should promise something which you can't keep. I don't mind, others might, just friendly advice here :) oh and I don't know if you tested it with the new parts, did you?
     
  2. PLAgoaway

    PLAgoaway Member

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    I got the HotEnd back today! With my new tools it should be really easy to install it on the printer. 10 minutes in and the whole thing is assembled, now I just need to up the temperature to 295 degrees, go!..

    Nothing is happening, I check the thermistor reading, 29C, hot day. Seems to work.
    Check the heater wires on the board, yeah they're connected, check the heater wires on the heatblock, aaaaaand one of the wires has broken off the white isolating material going in to the round heater element. I tried fixing it by pulling out the part of the wire stuck in the round heater element, nope. Tried making the two ends stick together, nope. Oh well, this ain't so bad I can order a new one and install it, no problem. Let me just check if everything else is working. Nope, thermistor error. Seems like one of the (very) fragile legs of the thermistor gave up and broke off. Thanks for the great support guys (and the free candy!) but I give up on the e3d HotEnd, there is no way this is going to work. I'm going to ship the whole thing back to you as it's really deadweight here. I know some of you probably think I'm an idiot and that's understandable.
     
  3. mchampoux

    mchampoux Member

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    Hi Grat,

    Thanks for replying! Cool: another Kossel Clear owner. I love my KC printer and I've got (I should had I had it) working very well with the stock "j-head". I even printed a full size skull the other day just for the fun of it (it took 2 days!).

    I bought the E3D hot-end because I wanted to see if I could get slightly better prints with their hot end... and I haven't been able to print anything with the E3D. Nothing at all.

    To answer your question: yes, I'm using the "Shane's ArmDrive". It works like a charm with the KC stock j-head and my acrylic extruder actually broke at one point while trying to get the E3D to work... oh well.

    I wish I could try to re-mount the hot end and do the PID recalibration but I can't because one of the legs of the thermistor broke off so there is no way I can get a temperature reading anymore from that hot-end.

    I'm sad to say but I gave up and used the "Contact Us" link on the E3D web site last Thursday (or was it Friday - I can't remember) to ask for if I could return it for a refund.

    If there are suggestions I could make to E3D, it would be to have a simple 1 page instruction sheet included in their kit.

    That sheet should say things like:

    - The build instructions are at this url (a link should be included here).
    - Don't forget to push the PTFE tube all the way down into the hot-end.
    - If you use Marlin, change your firmware settings for the thermistor to 5.
    - Regardless of firmware, re-calibrate your PID settings (a link should be included).
    - Change your retraction settings in your favorite slicing program to 2mm at 40mm/sec. (or other value which is recommended).

    Maybe someone else got those instructions in their box but I didn't.

    I did get candy however and that was a nice touch but not enough to get me up and running and printing successfully.

    I will try their V7 if they ever come out with one - maybe they'll have fixed all these jamming problems... hopefully.

    Thanks anyway for trying to help me, it's very appreciated!

    Marc
     
  4. Thadium

    Thadium Member

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    Hi everyone!

    I'm new in the 3D printing community, I just finished building my Pursa-Mendel with the help of a good friend. With some advices from him, I brought the E3D V6 Direct as my first hot end, instead of a J-Head.

    Yesterday, we gave a try to the V6, it printed correctly a hollow cube bridge test (7mins 45s) and then the V6 got jammed. We dismounted it from the printer and removed a first jam. We checked the PFTE tubing, it's all the way down to the hot end, as shown in the instructions (http://e3d-online.com/E3D-v6-Assembly).

    After reassembling the V6, we gave it another try: jam after a half of the first layer of the hollow cube!

    This morning, once again, I dismounted the V6, checked that everything was all right and launched another Hollow Cube, same result as yesterday! Now, the PLA is completely stuck into the PFTE tubing, I can't slide the PLA in the PFTE tubing neither the PFTE tubing in the Heatsink! :?

    The settings remained absolutely identical for the 3 prints:
    -PLA: 1.75mm light blue (Dutch PLA),
    -HotEnd temperature: 205°C,
    -Fan: Always ON.

    I can also provide you the order ID if needed!

    I'll upload pictures when I can unstuck the jam from the Heatsink.
    Edit: I just completed the E3D Troubleshooting Questionaire.
     
  5. tailgunner30uk

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    What retract setting are you using, if it is too long ie >4mm this might be causing some of the problems, for a Prusa with direct drive, rather than bowder you could start at 1mm and 50mm/s retract settings..

    Also I have found that a tiny amount of vegetable oil applied to the filament aids in preventing jams.

    There are many other tips and tricks that can help. PLA seems to be problematic due to it's sticky nature when molten.
     
  6. elmoret

    elmoret Administrator

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    This would indicate that the PLA you bought is not good quality, and diameter is too large.
     
  7. Thadium

    Thadium Member

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    Thanks for your answers, Tailgunner & Elmoret!

    My retract settings are those of my friend: 3mm @ 90mm/s. I wanted to try 1mm @ 75mm/s when my third jam occurred.

    On my next attempt, I'll try your advice, setting it at 1mm @ 50mm/s.

    Where should I apply the oil? Before the Grag-Wade or just after it? With a modelling paintbrush, or I can drop some drops somewhere and that's good?
    Any type of vegetable oil is good? Olive oil?

    @Elmoret: I measured my PLA, it's from 1.71mm to 1.74mm. I also thought about a too wide filament but it made a big "patty" at the exit of the PFTE and a few millimetres inside too.

    Just a little question for E3D staff: Why is there such a little piece of PFTE tube with the Direct V6? :cry:
    My tube was just torn apart after removing this third jam... I hope the section I cut while assembling the V6 will be long enough.
     
  8. tailgunner30uk

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    I use a piece of of foam around the filament before extruder. I took a small block of foam and made a cut approximately half way through the block. I then applied a few drops of vegetable oil to the foam. When you start, ramp the temperature up to 260-270 degrees and feed the PLA through the hot end to coat the inside of the hotend.

    With respect to retraction for a direct drive setup 1mm is a good place to start, increase it by 0.5mm at a time to eliminate oozing, you shouldn't need much retraction. Bowden setups are longer because they have to take into account the strechiness of the ptfe filament guide.

    I think there might be a printable oiler on thingiverse, once you have the printer working well.
     
  9. JvdP

    JvdP Well-Known Member

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    I've printed many good prints with my cheap-ass Anubis hot-end from QUBD. A few weeks ago I switched to the E3Dv6 expecting serious improvements only to be disappointed. So far, print quality has been lacking, but the worst happened last week when it started jamming. Now I can't print anything without getting a jam, often at the first few layers.

    I filled out the questionnaire since I've done all troubleshooting I know of.

    After un-jamming I can extrude manually through repetier without significant jammer, although it goes quite heavy. Extruding by hand is really difficult, up to the point where it is impossible.
     
  10. sungod3k

    sungod3k Active Member

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    I just read through the whole topic here. Is there a consensus on why some of them fail?

    The shorter heatbreak seems to be one weakpoint but again only in some of the cases.
     
  11. bryanandaimee

    bryanandaimee Member

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    I would double and then triple check to make sure you don't have a bit of debris lodged in the tip of the nozzle.

    My V6 hotend had exactly the symptoms most of you are describing. It printed fine for the first couple parts, then started stripping filament at the drive (Wades/Hobbed bolt) or stalling the motor. I would pull the filament and clean the hobbed bolt and try again only to have it stop printing after the first few layers. I had to turn the speed way down from what I had it at at the beginning to even get through the first few layers, but it was all for naught. After reading this thread I thought it must be the PLA expanding in the heat break and jamming. But when I finally looked closely it turned out to be a clogged nozzle.

    A clogged nozzle will display all the symptoms of a jam so it's difficult to differentiate. The debris moves up out of the nozzle a bit when you pull filament out but can stay inside and move back in to block the nozzle after the first few layers if you don't get it all the way out. Just clean the nozzle before moving on to other troubleshooting. It may save you a lot of time.

    Unfortunately since the top of the heat break tube and the aluminum heat sink have smaller diameter than the bottom of the heat break it is very difficult to warm-pull the filament to clean stuff out. Which in turn means that you have to heat the hot end too much if you want to pull filament without disassembly so the PLA in the tip gets left behind when you pull filament the normal way.

    My advice for cleaning the nozzle is to pull the hot end and remove the heatsink. This will make it much easier to pull warm PLA back out. Use an adjustable crescent wrench to assist you in handling the hotend by the heater block. Obviously don't clamp or plise the heat break tube. Just heat to 180 or so and feed some PLA in by hand till you get some extrusion then set the temp to 80 and wait for it to cool to that temp. Then slowly pull the warm PLA out. If you did it right you should see a plug at the end with a little tip from the nozzle. In other words all the PLA should pull out including the stuff in the tip of the nozzle.

    You might want to repeat the process a couple times with a new clean piece of PLA.

    Remove the nozzle and look through it. You should see a very bright spot when pointing it at a light.

    If you can still see debris or if the hole looks fuzzy or not very bright try again. Sometimes it is helpful for seriously jammed in debris to use a very small gauge needle such as you might use for Insulin shots to persuade the grit back into the nozzle body from the front. Heat the hotend to extrusion temp and use the needle from the front to push the debris back into the nozzle. Then perform the warm pull again to remove it completely. When done the nozzle should be pristine clean.

    Some suggestions:

    Measure your extruded filament once you have a known clean nozzle with your handy micrometer. A nozzle blockage will likely reduce the diameter of the extruded filament allowing you to determine easily if you have a blockage or if you are having heat break jamming.

    Think about reaming out the heatsink and top of the heat break a bit so you can warm-pull the filament without dissembling the hotend. Don't try this unless you have the tools and the know how. Especially don't mess up the nice polish at the bottom of the heat break.

    Before reinstalling the hotend on your extruder, do some manual extrusion with your clean hotend to get a feel for the forces involved. If the force required to extrude increases drastically, a clog is likely.

    Get a spare nozzle. If replacing the nozzle solves the problem then it's a clogged nozzle not heat break jamming.

    And now that I think about it, if the clog is ABS just heat to ABS extrusion temps and see if your PLA can push the clog out.
     
  12. manuya

    manuya Member

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    HI, sorry but I don't untherstand why you sey:
    "Especially don't mess up the nice polish at the bottom of the heat break."
    In the end of my heat break there is a real stair, and probably it is working as a hook. I think the surface should bo smooth to avoid trubles with retraction.
    Saludos
    Manuya
     

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  13. Jason_WI

    Jason_WI Member

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    My heat break looked worse than that. I had a large swirl cut in the full length of the heat break. I had to use sandpaper and start at 250 grit and worked up to 2000 grit then used polishing compound to get it smooth on my lathe. Looks like a drill bit in the lathe was used instead of a 6 flute reamer for the final size.
     
  14. manuya

    manuya Member

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    Hi Jason,
    has improved the performance of your printer?
    I think to make the hole with a tale is not possible in only one direction, is to long, so you have to remove the piece and turn it. That is the reasson why you can see two diferents holes in some photos. Perhaps with "electroherosion" will be better. I am going to ask how much it cost.
     
  15. JvdP

    JvdP Well-Known Member

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    So I couldn't be bothered waiting for E3D to respond to my jamming issues since, well, since I'm an impatient guy :roll: . I just ordered a new heat-break and nozzle to see if it would solve the problem. It came in the mail quickly, I installed it the same day (you see, I'm an impatient guy :lol: ). To be sure it wasn't the filament and reduce as many fail-factors as possible I also opened a new spool of filament that was still vacuum packed.

    I set it printing, no jams, GOOD!

    Yesterday I've been doing one of my longest prints so far: 10 hours on my QUBD Two-Up. Although I had some problems with warping (with PLA strange enough) the print went well. It managed the long prints without problems. Today when I did a 5 hour print it started jamming again about 1 hour in... Irritated but hopeful, I cleaned up, started it again and after half an hour: JAM! :cry:

    Now I can't print anything of significance, after a few layers it jams up and I have to start all over again. I've had 5 jams now and I've given up.

    So, I'm not sure what to do now. I suppose I'll be sending the hot-end to E3D for a scrutiny. I really want to get it to work because I love the design! If only it worked. My PEEK barrel Anubis hot end did a better job, I think that's a shame. However, I still have faith in E3D, they seem to really know what they're doing, I hope they can help me.

    Update. I did a 1 hour print with raised temperature (215C) and it seem to have worked since the print finished without any jams. It has of course had a negative effect on for example bridging, but going to test further and update.
     
  16. chrahp

    chrahp Member

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    I created this account in order to ask this, as I'm in the midst of testing this out, but has anyone else applied thermal paste/grease to the threads between the heat break and the heat sink? Based on before and after "cold pulls" where the filament was forcibly pulled out of the hot end once it had solidified, it resulted in a much shorter apparent transition zone. Before seemed to be closer to 4-5mm in length, after was closer to 2mm. Testing my machine with prints with multiple retractions didn't exhibit any of the filament starving, or jamming that occurred prior to adding thermal paste.

    My print settings were White 3mm UltiMachine PLA, 210C, 40mm/sec print speeds, 2.7mm @ 25mm/sec retractions, this is on a 3mm v6 Bowden set up. 5 hours total print time since the change has been made and no apparent jamming has been seen. I couldn't even get an hour in before it would jam prior to this. Though other issues have become apparent now, the same mounting method I had for the v5 won't work for the v6, but that's a separate issue.

    This increases the effectiveness of the heat sink/fan, increasing the heat flux from the heat break, preventing the PLA from softening before it enters the heater block.
     
  17. turbotommi

    turbotommi New Member

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    I found this Forum by googeling for E3Dv6 Jam. I have a 3mm direct Version. I filled the Google Form but made a mistake. I have entered the 1 for Thermistor within form but have checked again at home and see that the 5 is set in Firmware. My K8200 uses the same Thermistor from stock. So the Thermistor is korrect.
    The only way to avoid jamming is to use oil on the Filament and print with 80% flow (Cura setting)
    My retract is set to 1,5mm but this is effective more less because of the ABS gear. I print with Kiboplast @200° The fan runs permanently at 15V. The mount I use is from thingiverse. http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:349095 This mount alow the fan to blow until upside of last plate of heatsink. I have made a remake of this mount and printed with oiled PLA. This remake set the fan a bit in an angle and allow to blow below the most bottom plate. It' under construction and I'll test it this evening
    http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:491084
     
  18. Aggresive

    Aggresive Member

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    Just received a load of stuff from e3d, (had to order a new nozzle as I sheared it trying to stop this jamming issue).

    Found that the top end of my old heat break, and the spare I've just bought has a different diameter at the top to the bottom.

    The cold side is 3.2mm, as shown in the production documentation on the main website.

    http://files.e3d-online.com/v6/Drawings ... -BREAK.pdf

    the bottom 8mm of the heatbreak is 3.5mm!!! Then the nozzle goes down to 3.2mm again. This is (I think) the cause of the jamming. Retraction or swelling causes the filament to move/swell into this 3.5mm area. Then when the extruder goes to push it to the nozzle, the filament is too big to enter the nozzle.

    Let me know what you think, I've drilled the start of the nozzle to 3.3mm from 3.2mm. Don't want to go too far, as the bottom of the nozzle is only 5mm. e3d need to make sure that their reamer is actually cutting to 3.2mm :)

    update 16-10-2014 - I've not had a jam since drilling the nozzle to 3.3mm. I don't feel it's as good as it could be, as there is still 0.2-0.3mm of difference. when turning the drive gear by hand, there is a bit of resistance if the filament has been sat in the nozzle for a while, then gets easier, but does not jam.

    Pictures show standard parts as machined, from e3d.
     

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  19. Splendid

    Splendid Member

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    Well, I must say I'm really disappointed in the E3D V6 hotend :cry:

    Had my printer running for almost 1 year with a cheap Jhead with no problems. I was curious if I could get better prints with the E3D V6, like I saw elsewhere. Nope, it didn't, wont even give me a finished print job anymore, jams everywhere.

    Read this whole topic, tried all the tips you guys gave, but still jamming. I've already filled in the questionnaire.

    Here you see how the filament looks when the printer is jammed and I retract the filament:

    [​IMG]
    My filament is 2.9mm thick, but the end of it is 3.2mm. So, that looks like the jamming problem. I have no clue how to fix this.

    For now back at my Jhead and no problems at all...
     
  20. elmoret

    elmoret Administrator

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    Splendid, for starters it looks like you're using the wrong thermistor table.

    Why did you pick table 1 when the E3D documentation says to use table 5?
     

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