Lessons Learned

Discussion in 'Getting Started' started by Andy Cohen, Oct 4, 2019.

  1. Andy Cohen

    Andy Cohen Well-Known Member

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    Just on my first larger print I learned a few lessons:
    1. Check every setting on every tool. It's easy to miss one.
    2. When one small part of the printed object will use 1 tool, if possible, orient the object on the bed so that the tool does not have to travel over the entire object and instead goes right to the area it will print on. Less chance of drool hitting the object where you don't want it.
    3. Lower your temps. You only need it hot enough to fuse to the previous layer. No more heat than that is needed. Less heat, less drool.
    4. Bondtech's are WAYYYY better than Titan's. Sorry, I know this is an e3d forum, I'm just sayin. I've already had to do a tear down of one of the brand new Titans and it was a major PAIN! I've got 5 Bondtech's and have never had to do what I had to do to this Titan. I have found that with the Titan it is possible to have a filament that is never comfortable in it. The idler is either too tight and the filament get distorted and has trouble flowing through all the PTFE tubing or too loose and it slips. Also, the screw on the tension arm slips on all four of the Titans I got. and... there's no visual indication of how tight the screw is. You have to feel it by using your thumb to open the idler arm.
     
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  2. Greg Holloway

    Greg Holloway Administrator
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    Luckily we have a new extruder coming :)

    https://www.fabbaloo.com/blog/2019/9/30/e3d-online-announces-the-hermes-system
     
  3. Andy Cohen

    Andy Cohen Well-Known Member

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    5. Put something like a sheet of plexiglas or plywood under the machine to catch all the strings that fall through the cut out triangles on the base. What the heck are those cut outs for anyways? All they do is add time and cost in Production for the water jet to cut them out as well as make cleaning out the strings a pain. Without the cutouts fully inclosing would've been way easier. With them it requires modifying the base it also would have added mass and rigidity. WHY? No feedback from your beta testers on that?! Really?
    6. Turn off "Adjust speed for layers below..." in the Speeds tab of S3D. The Bowden design can't control the slower rate thanks to the built up back pressure in the long length of filament between the Titan and the V6. Turning it off makes for a cleaner drawing of a small tool path. It does not fix the problem, but it helps.
    7. For PLA and with the Github provided duct design... turn the downward fans on the tools up all the way up to 100% or for sure you'll see the left side corners slowly curve upward... you may see that anyway.
    8. Minimize the tool changes. In S3D you can use Sequential printing and set the height to more then the 2 layers you get with Continuous... Although with the extremely low slope on the V6 nozzle you may not be able to go very high. With the Mk8 nozzle I can go about 5 or 6 layers per material which saved tons of material changes (using the Palette). You can't do that with a nozzle that's kinda flat.
     
  4. Andy Cohen

    Andy Cohen Well-Known Member

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    So you guys are thinking of having a full Nema 17 ride on a tool? Really? That much mass? I'd at the very least think a bit about the lighter pancake version! With the feeder attached to the body of the entire assembly I wonder how easy it will be to open and clear.
     
  5. Paul Arden

    Paul Arden Well-Known Member

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    The bottom panel cutouts are required to put the Union Jack somewhere on the printer :)

    While the Hermes definitely adds mass, since its a custom stepper and not an off the shelf NEMA17 some of the mass is shared by the motor and the extruder, unlike the Titan Aero, I’d guess the total in the end would be somewhere between a Titan Aero with Pancake and with regular. Even so, nothing stopping you using a Titan Aero with a pancake stepper is mass is a big concern. Others have this going nicely. To be honest, my hope is that given the motion system, adding some mass would has less impact than on a lesser machine.

    I’d rather have more mass and slightly increased ghosting in order to get rid of the bowden which I definitely dislike more. Other people seem to be able to dial in their bowden setups nicely but I’d rather just go direct.
     
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  6. Greg Holloway

    Greg Holloway Administrator
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    The cut-outs are to reduce weight, and I have put an acrylic layer on the underside of some of the machines. You'll notice the five small round holes in the bottom panel, they are there to attach one to.

    To make things easier for you, I have attached a DXF of a design I have used.
     

    Attached Files:

  7. Ntesla66

    Ntesla66 Active Member

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    @Greg Holloway , I'm really not very enchanted with your reply, "Luckily we have a new extruder coming :)" I had to print new covers for two of my Titans that shattered in the corner with the bearing... I'm guessing some odd grease in the bearing broke down the polycarb. As for all the rest... mad stringing and blobs and hair everywhere and a parts fan duct that most certainly needs redesigned. I wasn't expecting a polished product but I did however expect a product that printed quality if tuned correctly and I just don't see that happening with these really long bowden tubes. I've rtfm'd every forum and also stfi (scoured the freakin' internet) for solutions to the blobbing, stringing catastrophe that happens on my build plate at least every other print... and then I read "Luckily we have a new extruder coming :)" ... That does not instill confidence in a successful outcome nor make me want to spend anymore money. And yes, I tried many many variations of pressure advance vs retraction. When I got a good print I could turn right around and try again only to fail so it was more luck than tuning. (Not angry, just very very frustrated).
     
  8. wHack

    wHack Well-Known Member

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    @Ntesla66 I assure you the printer can be tamed. I and several others have tuned ours to be reasonably reliable. If I were you I would abandon pressure advance all together. Get a good retraction set up. Then add a silicone brush I use the paperclip with mine, which works well, and work on a good prime routine.
     
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  9. Ntesla66

    Ntesla66 Active Member

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    @wHack , I've read all your posts about your pa trials and used that for my starting point.They were all very helpful. It would be really very helpful if you and the several others would share exactly how you tamed the beast! Also did you tame the beast with petg?
     
  10. Greg Holloway

    Greg Holloway Administrator
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    I am out of the office until November, but on my return I will share my profile as it currently is.

    As a rough guide I have retraction at 5.5 at 100mms. Coasting at .3 and wipe at 4.

    Stringing is very dependent on material, and how dry that material is also affects things.
     
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  11. Andy Cohen

    Andy Cohen Well-Known Member

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    If you are looking for optimal multi-material results with tool paths at or less then 3mm you will be disappointed. IMO we can't get there with the Bowdens. OTOH, multi part objects with larger tool paths print great. At least for me. My starting profile is basically the same as Gregs'. BUT PLA should be around 200C.
    Pressure Advance did nothing for this specific problem IME.
    Note there are other ways to do the purge wipe. Look for my thread on wiper designs. I use lengths of thin bungee cord. One is strung in front of the parking spots to wipe the drool after standbys. I also printed two brackets which attach to the slots in the sides of the panels which hold a pair of cords about 12mm after the bed. I purge right after tool pickup and when the hotend passes by towards the bed it wipes on the pair of cords. Not perfect but gets 95% without the time consuming brush nor the pile up on the brush. I also use an Ooze shield (S3D) which gets most of the last 5%. Am I getting perfection? No. Depends on the object. For sure a single material 3D Benchy from each tool by itself prints above avg for me. Not as good as my CR1 but as good or better then a slow Ender 3.
    Try printing this:
    https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2461473
    But first make sure you have a good purge wipe setup and use an ooze shield.

    How do you post pics on this forum???
     
    #11 Andy Cohen, Oct 16, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2019
  12. Amr

    Amr Well-Known Member

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    i got good prints out of my TC after a few tries but I would not say it took me more than any other printer. bellow is the latest print the black is PETG printed at 0.2 layer height. 60mm/s retractions 5.5 at 100mms. Coasting at .3 and wipe at 4. I print a bit hot to compansate for the speed this was Prusa PETG printed at 245 on a 90 bed. I do think S3D's Algorithm for slicing needs some love but you judge for your self. I am not sure why others here are having trouble with there TCs I am sure I am not the Only one getting decent prints out of there TC. The only thing I need to work on is the ringing when I have holes on a face I know I can get rid of that if I slow the printer but I want to go faster :). The scratchs in the picture are super glue strings from when I was glueing a gasket inside the box.

    Top White part was printed on a prusa MK2.5 that needs some TLC its been printing for 2 years with no maintenance so I for give it.

    6.jpg 5.jpg 4.jpg 3.jpg 2.jpg 1.jpg
     
  13. Ntesla66

    Ntesla66 Active Member

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    I'm not saying that it won't print, it will. It's just the bowdens and the stringing and blobbing. The prints in the back row were done with my own home-built Cartesian with Duetwifi and flexion extruders. The ones in the front row are printed with the E3D TC. I get a consistency after tuning with the homebuilt printer that I've yet to achieve with the TC. And since I print a fair amount of TPU at a very fine grain structure...I need consistency. I would've bought the Hermes for all of the tools had they been available when my turn at the queue came up. 3dcomp2-min.jpg
     
  14. Ntesla66

    Ntesla66 Active Member

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    How do you post pics on this forum???[/QUOTE]


    Compress them to under 1MB in size.
     
  15. Andy Cohen

    Andy Cohen Well-Known Member

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    Compress them to under 1MB in size.[/QUOTE]
    All I see is button for images that asks for an URL. Does not matter what size file. I was able to post pics before. This was why a lot of TC builders don't come here they go to FB.
     
  16. Ntesla66

    Ntesla66 Active Member

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    @Andy Cohen , I had attempted several times to upload an image and always got an error. Today after Amr posted on this thread, I looked at the properties of one of his images and then took my image and compressed it while leaving it a jpg (I'd tried png before) and clicked on the "Upload a file" button next to the "Post Reply" button. Tada! It posted... that's all I really know. I'd searched all over this forum for an answer earlier in the month, couldn't find one.
     
  17. wHack

    wHack Well-Known Member

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    952B5AA8-2200-4C95-8730-DA3AA1F87199.jpeg D6461EEF-8303-40AD-A2C1-AF2FBABB5777.jpeg 8AEAAC14-2E07-41F8-A6EE-B33F5EA701C2.jpeg @Ntesla66 Wow. You are having some problems. Even your single material prints are rough. I promise you it can do worlds better. Here are pics of three recent things I printed on my TC.
     
  18. wHack

    wHack Well-Known Member

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    Actually only the crusty gear heart is recent. The frog was the first multi material print I did. I got the prime tuned better after that. I’m not saying my machine is perfect. There are still issues, and I am definitely buying four direct drive tools when the new extruders come out, but even with the bowdens you can get a lot better than what you have right now.
     
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  19. Andy Cohen

    Andy Cohen Well-Known Member

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    Ok... Got it. You can see the issue I have with the Bowden on the left hand.
     

    Attached Files:

  20. wHack

    wHack Well-Known Member

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    Yep I have it on short paths as well. You can see it on the black tips on a few spots on my gear heart.
     

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