SOLVED Long Straight Runs

Discussion in 'Calibration, Help, and Troubleshooting' started by gearmesh, Aug 14, 2016.

  1. gearmesh

    gearmesh Well-Known Member

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    Please Help ;)
    I am having a problem that only happens when I have a long straight run of plastic.The plastic is extruded but is not adhering to the other layers. It happens on long runs. Not so much the top or bottom layers though. This run is about 5 inches or so.

    Long Runs Separated 1.jpg


    In this 2nd photo, looking closely, you can see the rectangular infill behind the droopy long tread. I have the stock fan. In this case I am using Raptor PLA which is supposed to print just like PLA but at 240 degrees.

    Long Runs Separated 2.jpg


    Here are the Simplify3d details. I am printing with Extruder 1. Raptor PLA @ 240.
    Extruder 1.jpg

    Layer.jpg
    infill.jpg
    Cooling.jpg

    Other.jpg
     
  2. mike01hu

    mike01hu Well-Known Member

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    Cooling looks too high and I would suggest reducing it to no more than 50%.
     
  3. gearmesh

    gearmesh Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Mike. I will give it a shot!
     
  4. mike01hu

    mike01hu Well-Known Member

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    In the pictures is the orientation on the print bed the same as the photo and you are not trying to bridge over that length or print a large overhang?

    While you're at it I would increase the outline overlap to around 25-30% as well to improve infill to perimeter connection.
     
  5. gearmesh

    gearmesh Well-Known Member

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    The cooling fan change didn't help. Darn.
    I will keep the cooling at 50% and change the overlap. Also, I will review the drawing to verify I am not trying to do a long overhang. I thought I had made sure I hadn't, but I drew the model ages ago and I should check it again.
    Thanks Mike
     
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  6. Bluemalu

    Bluemalu Well-Known Member

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    Looking at your Simplify3D info am I correct in thinking you have a dual. If so, could it be that when you have calibrated your bed height, it would be for the left hand extruder. Even though your extruders will be level, if you have MBL the point at which it's level is relative you left extruder. Now, if your bed / frame / system thinks there is a tilt on your bed your right extruder could be 34-35mm away from the correction.

    Maybe calibrate with your right extruder on the bed. I think I experienced something similar when I was playing with different extruders. Another option to prove this could be to rotate (if possible) 90 degrees clockwise.
     
  7. gearmesh

    gearmesh Well-Known Member

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    I do have a dual but I have the non-functioning side removed so I level the only side remaining which is a direct drive. When I print I set the part at rough;y 45 degrees.
    The long strech was verified to have no overhang. that part is 100 percent vertical (90 degrees). I have this issue with EDGE and Raptor PLA. I have printed this part tones of times with no issues with my old Wanhao Duplicator i3 & Cura using filaments regular PLA and PETG and I did not have this issue.
    I don't believe this is a fault of the BigBox by any stretch. I think it is just a setting in my Simplify3D, which I am still trying to master with any filament other than regular PLA.
    45 degree.jpg
     
    #7 gearmesh, Aug 17, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2016
  8. mike01hu

    mike01hu Well-Known Member

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    I suppose the next thing to ask is which firmware and FFF flavours are you using and look at the scripts to see if all is OK there. I note that you did not include the "Temperature" screen shot to show what settings are there.
     
  9. gearmesh

    gearmesh Well-Known Member

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    Here is the Temperature screenshot. Raptor PLA prints at 240 degrees.
    I am on firmware RC6. (Non Alex version and I use auto bed leveling, although I think now I know enough to move to Alex version with the manual bed leveling)

    Temp Nozzle.jpg

    Temp Bed.jpg
     
  10. mike01hu

    mike01hu Well-Known Member

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    I can see nothing suspicious in any of the setting you have, as they are pretty normal. If you can show the starting script if there is one that may have more information. I would ask @Alex9779 to give his opinion as I am out of ideas.:(
     
  11. gearmesh

    gearmesh Well-Known Member

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    Sure.
    Here is how I start....

    ;BigBox Printer Start Script Begin
    ;relies on M83 (use relative extrusion distances)

    M117 Preparing
    M140 S[bed0_temperature] ; set bed temperature
    T1 ; select extruder 1

    M104 S[extruder1_temperature] ; set extruder 1 temperature
    ;home
    T1 ; select extruder 1
    G28

    ;set values
    M218 T0 X-35 Y0 ; set extruder 1 offset
    ;M92 E290 ; adjust steps per mm

    ;move to dock
    T1 ; select extruder 1
    G1 Z1 F300
    G1 X50 Y200 F3000 ; move to position in front of dock
    G1 X50 Y245 F3000 ; move into dock

    ;heat bed
    M190 S[bed0_temperature] ; wait for bed temperature

    ;heat extruder 1
    T1 ; select extruder 1
    M109 S[extruder1_temperature] ; set extruder 1 temperature and wait

    ;prime extruder 0
    T1 ; select extruder 1
    G1 E15 F200 ; reverse end of print retraction
    G1 E10 F50 ; extrude 10mm

    ;move out of dock
    G1 X60 Y245 F3000 ; move to position in dock
    G1 X60 Y200 F3000 ; move out of dock
    G1 X50 Y245 F3000 ; move into dock
    G1 X60 Y200 F3000 ; move out of dock
    G1 X50 Y245 F3000 ; move into dock
    G1 X60 Y200 F3000 ; move out of dock
    G1 X50 Y245 F3000 ; move into dock
    G1 X60 Y200 F3000 ; move out of dock

    M117 Print starting

    ;BigBox Printer Start Script End
     
  12. Bluemalu

    Bluemalu Well-Known Member

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    Sorry for the delay in replying, I'm in West of Shetland, working on a ship with bad weather and slow internet.

    When you level your bed do you do it heated or cold? Is your first layer good? Is your 2nd head picking up on the model previously printed and lifting the carriage?
     
  13. gearmesh

    gearmesh Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm.

    Well I use auto leveling now but am planning on changing that in the future. Usually I level on a cold bed but not always. The first layers are not the issue either. It seems to happen between these two shots (roughly layers 27 to 55)

    Layer 27.jpg


    Layer 55.jpg

    Zoomed of layer 55. Here you can see from the short side, the walls are vertical (where the red lines are pointing). This where the problem arises.
    Layer 55 zoomed.jpg
     
  14. mike01hu

    mike01hu Well-Known Member

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    That looks like a hell of a overhang and would not be achievable without support. Print this the other way up as it looks as if this was how it was intended, so to do this on the main screen in S3D, choose "Edit/Place surface on Bed" or CTRL+L and select a triangle on the top surface to flip the model.
     
  15. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    Yeah that's what I thought too. I have no idea how you printed that on an other printer without issues. Maybe because you used a different slicer?
    You set to print perimeters to "Inside-out", thats good but if the outer line of the overhang are too far away from the middle then there are not only perimeters printed but also infill and then the printer prints the outer contour of the part in mid air, the inner line first but that line also has no chance to adhere to the middle structure...

    Hmmm I don't think that would work too because then the inner parts are overhangs and would have to be printed in the air...

    I don't think the next thing has something to do with your real problem:
    Reading your start script (looks like mine btw) I have no idea how your bed gets warm with the screenshots you posted above.
    On the temperature tab you selected the "Heated Bed" which has a "Temperature Identifier" set to "T2" but in the script you have the variable [bed0_temperature]. Either set that to "T0" or use [bed2_temperature]...
     
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  16. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    Oh BTW a model and your sliced file would help a lot :D
     
  17. gearmesh

    gearmesh Well-Known Member

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    Well you are both right.
    I did print it upside down on the other printer and $!@ was I thinking. That overhang is crazy.
    I was thinking it was the vertical walls drooping but you are right it is the overhang dropping which makes 100% sense. Duh.

    The reason I flipped it in the 1st place because there are some rails that come out and they were drooping. I may need to split this in half, upper and lower and have them snap together. Wow, I can't believe I didn't see it.

    View from the bottom
    Bottom.jpg


    View from the top
    Top.jpg
     
  18. gearmesh

    gearmesh Well-Known Member

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    Time to learn supports!
     
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  19. mike01hu

    mike01hu Well-Known Member

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    Remember that in S3D you have the option to generate support manually and for this model you could use a quite coarse support (lower percentage) and rely on bridging with high cooling for those initial layers, which you can also set in the cooling dialogue.

    I assume this clips into another part and those side wedges are the clips. If so, you could angle the right-angled surface to say 30 degrees or even give them a full radius and you should get away without support for those areas. I often print a test piece to model an overhang such as this and tweak the angles and radii for best result and function. Like @Alex9779 I don't go much for support and try to re-orientate the model or design my way around it. It's a steep but enjoyable (frustrating!!) learning curve, no pun intended . . . OK it was! :rolleyes::D
     
    #19 mike01hu, Aug 19, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2016
  20. gearmesh

    gearmesh Well-Known Member

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    All Better!
    I have not removed the supports on the bottom yet but the long run issues has been resolved thanks to Mike's and Alex's input.

    I really appreciate the help as I was looking in completely the wrong area for the solution. I was thinking it was the sidewalls drooping where as it was actually an overhang that drooped over the sidewalls, hence my confusion.
    It was a rookie mistake but one I won't forget.
    Thanks

    No Drooping.jpg
     
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