Makerfarm Pegasus 12" vs Bigbox 12"?

Discussion in 'BigBox General Chat' started by HDer, Oct 26, 2016.

  1. HDer

    HDer Member

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    Hi, I am new to 3D printers and am considering purchasing a larger sized printer. Bigbox seems to have put their sales/delivery on hold and I need to make a purchase soon. Can anyone offer opinions of the Makerfarm Pegasus 12" (with Titan & e3d-v6) vs the Bigbox 12" printers?

    Does anyone know when Bigbox will be selling/shipping again? They seemed to have ignored my emails inquiring about this...
     
  2. Tom De Bie

    Tom De Bie Well-Known Member

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    Another option is to source everything for the BB yourself. BB is completely OpenSource ;)
    You'll find all the files (STL, BOM, etc...) on Thingiverse
     
  3. HDer

    HDer Member

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    Great idea, but only problem is that you need a 3D printer to build this 3D printer...!
     
  4. BR27

    BR27 New Member

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    I only have experience of the big box so I can't help there but if your quick there is a factory built big box for sale on eBay:

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/112174113072

    They will even take an offer on it according to the purchase details, good luck!
     
  5. HDer

    HDer Member

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    Thank you for the link, unfortunately I am in Canada and unit is in UK, and seller will not ship!
     
  6. Dr Jeep

    Dr Jeep Well-Known Member

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    Nobody seems to know what's happening with future BB production and the Bigbox team have gone silent on the matter (I'm not even sure how much of the BB team remain other than Greg).

    Being brutally honest, It's a good printer but given we are fast approaching a season where sales would be at a peak and there has been no information out of E3D regarding future availability......There is one clear logical conclusion (about the only one which makes any sense in terms of explaining their recent behaviour)

    I think the safest bet is that they don't intend to make it anymore (at least not as a complete printer or complete kit), I challenge E3D to make a firm statement saying any different :)

    If it was me, and they aren't even responding to a sales enquiry then I'd move on and find something else. The Pegasus looks interesting (E3D hotends and I like the linear rails) but it's not as pretty as the Bigbox was and has a moving bed, which is technically inferior in my opinion. It's also not a fully open source design (so ultimately not as hackable, if that's your thing) it was the open design that made me choose the BB.
     
  7. HDer

    HDer Member

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    Thank you for your feedback. BB finally responded to me after 4 days saying they are working on a newer model, but do not have an availability date...hmmm....
    As for the Pegasus - it seems like they have been around, have good reputation for support, and seems to provide value for the size. What do you see is NOT open source? I am not yet familiar enough with the open source 3D world to differentiate. Your comments would be appreciated.
     
  8. Dr Jeep

    Dr Jeep Well-Known Member

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    I could be wrong but I think the pegasus uses open source firmware but the hardware/mechanics aren't. So the hardware designs and drawings aren't freely available for the pegasus I think.

    It's only relevant if you intend to modify the printer (or want to support it with spares once the company has stopped) and not having open source designs doesn't actually prevent that, it just makes it harder.
     
  9. Dr Jeep

    Dr Jeep Well-Known Member

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    Well at least that's slightly more positive sounding than anything they have posted recently on here :)
     
  10. R Design

    R Design Well-Known Member

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    We can guess what the X-axis will look like: but what about the Y and the Z?

    And will it still be Marlin?

    And what about the bed?
     
  11. Dr Jeep

    Dr Jeep Well-Known Member

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    Who knows, there are a million possibilities but until there is an actual announcement its just vapourware really :)

    I can assure you that some point in the future I am considering releasing a printer kit that makes the current BB look like a toy, just don't ask which century I plan to release it in :D

    What is fairly clear to me is that they probably need to "productionalise" the design a bit. When I look at the numbers of printers sold, the number of staff working hard to support that and the difficulty they had supporting everyone trying to build it (and the QA issues etc some people had as a result). Then add in some sensible assumptions on markup from the kit parts...etc. What I get to is a not very viable business model...not at the price they were selling the preorder printers at and not whilst the kits are prepared in the UK.

    Even at the peak they weren't able to get to maintain a double digit average daily dispatch rate because the print farm manufacturing doesn't scale very well and the kit has way too many manual steps to get it in a shipping state from the components they have.

    Then add in that the post Brexit weaker £ has made a lot of their sourced components more expensive (though on the plus side it has made the printer appear cheaper to international buyers).

    So aside from some of the innovation on the X axis (which does look very interesting) I think they need to prioritise on some cost optimisations and efficiencies in the design to make it actually viable at full production scale. The company is inexperienced at doing that for something of this complexity and it's at least 1000x more difficult than anyone who hasn't done it thinks.

    They obviously already have an injection moulding partner, one of those efficiencies could be to move parts where there is little opportunity for innovation over to moulded parts and keep that expensive and slow print farm free for the stuff they might want to change frequently (like carriages)
     
  12. Spoon Unit

    Spoon Unit Well-Known Member

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    Seems like the obvious answer is that they're completing work around the dual X hotend design. It's surprising though that they don't keep selling 1.1 pro/dual with Titans. It's a solid piece of kit. Perhaps they've decided they're too small to support masses of options and holding masses of stock. They seem to be a victim of their own success; not being quite ready for such an influx of orders.
     
  13. R Design

    R Design Well-Known Member

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    As I recall the major issues were causes by things that could be ironed out over time:

    - the z- rod / bearing fit fiasco;
    - the lead screw nut mess up;
    - poor quality bearings;
    - incomplete instructions combined with a design that requires some tuning to work properly;
    - packing errors;
    - persistent lack of foresight in the supply chain;
    - a Churchillian "never complain, never explain" attitude to communications;

    There was also a famous miscalculation as to how long it would take to print a set of parts, but switching to an all-the-parts-for-one-printer on one printbed at least eliminated a needless manual element with concomitant cost reduction.

    Given the relative fragility of the design I can well imagine that it needs to be shipped in kit form only; but with a few tweaks I'd say that the basic concept of a flatpack lasercut hackable printer with a great direct-extrusion hotend has legs. More so if it because truly dual with washaway support and electronics that can control it.

    Really looking forward to 2.0 and hoping that my usage at that point will justify another machine.

    Mostly still wondering whether this Z design can deliver a perfect sidewall. @Dr Jeep rumour has it you employed plum couplers. Did they eliminate all traces, in all lights and to the most discerning eye?
     
  14. Dr Jeep

    Dr Jeep Well-Known Member

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    They made an immediate difference to a very specific type of wide banding I was getting (where each band was regularly repeating and visible over a number of layers) though I think actually with hindsight you can get the stock couplers to play almost as nicely with very careful fitting, I persist with my view that plum couplers are better in applications where the angular adjustment required is minimal and you want none of that slight unwinding behaviour you get with the helical ones. I did a benchy comparison which I think I posted to the google group if you can find it.

    But I still don't have perfect sidewalls (it's not something I have worked any harder to eliminate other than the initial improvements I got though careful setup and fitting those couplers)
     
    R Design and mike01hu like this.

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