New board: Z and extruder motors not working

Discussion in 'Calibration, Help, and Troubleshooting' started by fpex, Jun 1, 2016.

  1. fpex

    fpex Well-Known Member

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    So, who know about my fire knows why I have a new board and new drivers.
    This is what I have done since the new board arrived:

    - installed it, wired all, calibrated the drivers as from wiki
    - swapped Z and extruder motors (z has 400 steps and extruder 200)
    - replaced the supply fan with a more silent one
    - Flashed RC4 where I changed e-step accordingly (and also the name :) )

    During check I see that X and Y are fine, IR sensor is fine. Heads are fine in heating up, all fans works.
    But I have serious problems with the Z and extruders.

    The Z axis stutters.
    The extruder do not move at all (I am testing with cold hot ends) but if I connect the motors to another driver they work perfectly.

    My old board was fine after calibrating the drivers and adjusting the e-steps. But the only explanation have for the above is:

    - z driver underpowered?
    - extruder now turn on only with hot hot ends?

    Anything I should check?

    Thanks

    PS: as reference I am using
    #define DEFAULT_AXIS_STEPS_PER_UNIT {160,180,3200,456}
     
  2. Paul Seccombe

    Paul Seccombe Well-Known Member

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    The extruder motors won't operate with cold hot ends. It is a failsafe in Marlin (although you could disable it if needed).

    Have you tried driving one z axis motor at a time (with the coupling disconnected)?
     
  3. fpex

    fpex Well-Known Member

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    No, I did not try because the wires are soldered together. I did the motor test and all was fine.
    Strange for the extruder since in the older firmware (or better the burned board) this was not the case
     
  4. Paul Seccombe

    Paul Seccombe Well-Known Member

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    Just a thought on your z axis. How does it stutter? Does it just vibrate back and forth? I wonder is you have a short in the wiring due to some insulation being burned off?
     
  5. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    If you have OctoPrint or a host connected to the RUMBA you can send M302 to allow cold extrudes.
    No idea about the "old" firmware, it shouldn't have allowed that either...
    Motor stuttering is usually a current problem, tune your steppers or test them on different drivers...
     
  6. fpex

    fpex Well-Known Member

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    I warmed the hotted to >170, extruder 1 (titan bowden) works. Extruder 2 (titan direct) no, it stutter once and stop moving. However, if i connect extruder 2 to any other driver, it works fine.
    The Z motors stutter always no matter which driver i use. I can only cut the wires and test with one motor only. Boh!

    The fact extruder worked cold before ... maybe related to my board in the ending burning?
     
  7. fpex

    fpex Well-Known Member

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    They move in the right direction but stuttering (back and forth) as if they do not get enough current. I will cut al open tomorrow with fresh eyes to check if I burned some isolation by mistake
     
  8. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    For a first test I'd just power down, take out the Z driver and put a known working driver in there, for example the one from E! and test again...
    Did you tune your drivers?
     
  9. fpex

    fpex Well-Known Member

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    Did tune on the values from the wiki.
    I swapped the drivers and Z still stutters, a bit less, but stutters. Tomorrow, when I am more awake I will cut the wires and check .... enough for tonight as I almost damaged a driver while removing it :p
     
  10. fpex

    fpex Well-Known Member

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    Weird, if I swap red and green for extruder 2, it stutters. If I install the cabling like from wiki ... it does not even stutter ...
    But if I use the same cabling on the Z pins ... it works well.
     
  11. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    Pfft could be that the cabling is wrong. If you did the pairing of the coils wrong the magnetic field can do weird things, maybe read http://reprap.org/wiki/Stepper_wiring how to get the cabling right?
     
  12. fpex

    fpex Well-Known Member

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    Well the cables are form E3D, I only had to recrimp one side because the plastic was melted form the fire. I crimped as form their original wire.
    Afterwards I tested the wire and it was fine. I also tested the motor and it was fine.

    I used the LED method :)
     
  13. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    Hmmmmm all I found about stuttering motors was that the current is not correct, set too high...
    How exactly are you measuring the reference voltage when tuning the steppers?
     
  14. fpex

    fpex Well-Known Member

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    with a multimeter as on the wiki. Drivers are all around the same values
     
  15. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    Ok then I would try to lower the voltage and see how the steppers behave.
    Sorry for the slow steps but this is hard to debug... You gotta try and try and if you got working on piece then try the same by switching one component for the other. That way you can track the problem down...
    Take a working combination of driver and stepper then connect a different stepper to the driver.
    I would test the Z motors separately...
     
  16. fpex

    fpex Well-Known Member

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    I will do tomorrow, thanks.
    Do not worry, I know about trial and error. But since the fire, I am rather concerned so I ask more than usual for this one.
    Funnily I have also my FelixPro1 burning caption heaters and my Form simply refuses to print well .... an hella of a time.
    Luckily my old ones keep going without a itch so work can continue. Looks like cheapos break less ;-)
     
  17. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    Ya no problem. A break doesn't hurt... You are what we call in Germany "gebranntes Kind", by word "burned child".
    Sleep a night and tomorrow check everything again... Err today, you are the same TZ as I am :D
     
  18. fpex

    fpex Well-Known Member

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    So, early in the morning, I got few printers on (yes my workshop is in my garage for the happiness of kids and unhappiness of wife).
    I am focusing on one problem at a time now. The Extruder2 first (since I feel Z might be easier)

    This one uses a pancake motor. I tried the following:

    - connecting the motor on any x,y,z will make the extruder move (of course e-step is wrong)
    - connecting the extruder in its own position ... the motor stutters a big. IF I change the voltage, it just changes the stirrer frequency. Here stutter is just moving back and forth. If I connect as E3D says, it does not work.

    I crimped and recrimped, and checked on a different wire .... I am lost. I will try to attach a different motor (loss of the Titan extruded) and see if that is the issue.
     
    #18 fpex, Jun 2, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2016
  19. fpex

    fpex Well-Known Member

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    Extruder issue resolved ... the new board came with one broken driver!
    Must be my bad luck ... driver on fire and DOA :-(

    Noe i need to get a new driver and check the Z motors
     
    #19 fpex, Jun 2, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2016
  20. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    Nice!

    Too bad, you are not the luckiest BB user...
     

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