New E3d v6 Full kit issues

Discussion in 'E3D-v6 and Lite6' started by Alden, Aug 10, 2017.

  1. Alden

    Alden Member

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    Hi
    I just finished to setup a new Original E3d v6 full kit and trying to do a PID autotune, (I have not print anything yet) but everytime I do the autotune I get a different value and some times the temp just reach 170 degree and stay there and the test timeout and fail.
    I`m doing the test with the main fan ON ( the fan that cool the plastic) using M303 S230 C5.
    My previous heater cartrige the one that came with my printer is 24v 40W but this one I received is 24v 30W.
    Should I made the autotune with the FAN ON or OFF ?
    My PID_MAX on the firmware is set to 255.

    thanks in advanced for any help.
     
  2. Old_Tafr

    Old_Tafr Well-Known Member

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    There are lots of posts on PID autotuning, problem is sorting through them. As background it's worth mentioning what printer and controller you are using, and how you are doing the PID autotune, e.g. via Octoprint?

    I would expect that the fans have to be on, certainly on the BigBox they come on automatically at 40oC so you would have to switch them off, and if you did so then if you happened to have filament in the hotend the lack of cooling would melt the filament through the heatbreak into the heat sink.

    The general opinion seem to be 40w heater, although 30w may work with a boot on the block.

    Although there are possibly other reasons why the PID fails, e.g. the heater not being able to hold the temperature, I found that the room conditions were critical. My first attempt with the window open and with a draft ended in failure, closing the window and door and success, remember to save the correct parameters as one post had a procedure which collected the data, wrote it to the controller but didn't save them (I assume to the EEPROM) so after a power off/on it was back to the old values.

    Lots of references in many PID autotune posts including...

    http://www.soliwiki.com/PID_tuning

    http://reprap.org/wiki/G-code

    http://reprap.org/wiki/PID_Tuning

    and this has a sequence of tuning steps, including using S3D to input the parameters instead of writing them to the EEPROM and flashing the firmware. It also has running PID for the bed, and in this specific case the parameters were very different.

    https://forum.e3d-online.com/index.php?threads/pid-tuning.731/

    The values can of course be written without flashing the firmware.
     
    #2 Old_Tafr, Aug 10, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2017
  3. Antoine

    Antoine Well-Known Member
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    You don't want to ever turn your heatsink fan off, this happens in some printers but we find it safer to have it on all the time. The part cooling fan being on will increase the temperature stability during most of the print, but you may see a slight overshoot upon heating up your hotend when the part cooling fan isn't on (first couple of layers usuallly). 30W should be enough to heat up your hotend efficiently. The only problem with part cooling fans is that, if the fan duct is poorly designed, the heater block can be directly cooled and the printer would not be able to keep it hot enough, raising a thermal runaway of heater failure error. The best solution in this case is to design the part cooling fan such that it points towards the nozzle and not the block, and put a silicon sock on the nozzle.
     
  4. Alden

    Alden Member

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    I was refering to the part cooling fan, the other one is always ON. I'm using a Ramps 1.4 board and a 24v 8.8 Amp or 200W power supply.
    The Fan duct is the one that the Original Josef Prusa use. Firmware I`m using a modified Marlin 1.1.1 to make the touch screen work.
    this are all the diferent values I get with the fan ON:
    Kp: 17.69 Ki: 1.10 Kd: 71.03
    Kp: 24.13 Ki: 2.38 Kd: 61.27
    Kp: 33.78 Ki: 4.43 Kd: 64.34
    Kp: 26.93 Ki: 2.69 Kd: 67.28
    Kp: 42.67 Ki: 8.01 Kd: 56.80
    Kp: 47.93 Ki: 7.05 Kd: 81.48
    Kp: 40.08 Ki: 5.56 Kd: 72.23
    Kp: 46.94 Ki: 8.18 Kd: 67.29
    Kp: 36.46 Ki: 6.55 Kd: 50.78
    Kp: 29.59 Ki: 5.16 Kd: 42.42
    Kp: 39.11 Ki: 6.82 Kd: 56.07
    Kp: 23.85 Ki: 2.94 Kd: 48.36
    Kp: 32.59 Ki: 5.45 Kd: 48.73
    Kp: 52.01 Ki: 8.58 Kd: 78.83
    Kp: 37.31 Ki: 6.51 Kd: 53.49

    As you can see, always is a diferent value and I wonder why ?
    Thank you guys for the input, apreciate.
     
  5. Alden

    Alden Member

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    I just get tired of autotune and picked up the last value I got and looks like is holding right so far by the look of this graphic.

    [​IMG]
     

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