COMPLETE Nozzle tramming

Discussion in 'Guides, Mods, and Upgrades' started by orcinus, Jun 7, 2016.

  1. orcinus

    orcinus Well-Known Member

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    I installed a 0.6 and a 0.3 nozzle on my Dual Hybrid, the 0.3mm one being the "primary" tool (direct drive) one.
    Problem is - the smaller E3D nozzles are badly finished. The flat area around the orifice is too small and the edges way too sharp, leaving furrows when doing solid infill.

    Pretty ugly.

    To top it off, any amount of misalignment between the nozzle angle and the bed only makes it worse. I did my best to keep everything aligned and the top surfaces were still ugly as hell, especially with smaller extrusion widths.

    So what i did was what i used to do years ago on cheap nozzles - i trammed it.
    Here are the steps:

    1) put a piece of fine grit sandpaper on the bed under the nozzle and lift the bed up so the sandpaper is just about catching
    2) with your fingers, slide the sandpaper under the nozzle in circular motion for a bit - don't overdo it, this is just to get the largest burrs off if present
    3) lower the bed, move the sandpaper so a clean bit is under the nozzle and wet it
    4) lift the bed until it catches the sandpaper nicely
    5) slide the sandpaper around in circular motion until you can feel it catching less
    6) lower the bed, remove the sandpaper, wipe the nozzle - the nozzle is now trammed
    7) get a very fine grit sanding sponge (3000 and upwards)
    8) wet it, put your finger under the wet bit, then "wipe" it all around the nozzle tip - the goal is to smoothen out and polish the edges and the surface we've just trammed
    9) feel the nozzle with your finger - it shouldn't be "catching" your fingertip on its edges
    10) heat up the nozzle to 210 and push some filament through - goal being to get any sanding debris that might've ended up in the orifice out

    That's it.

    Results:

    [​IMG]

    Left - before; Right - after
     
  2. orcinus

    orcinus Well-Known Member

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    Intermediate steps:

    [​IMG]
     
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  3. Stian Indal Haugseth

    Stian Indal Haugseth Well-Known Member

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    Amazing! Worth trying when everything else is finished.

    What's happening in the corner?
     
  4. orcinus

    orcinus Well-Known Member

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    The corner is where the last move ends.
    There's a tiny little pause there before the head moves away.

    I'm not yet sure what's causing it, i'll need to examine KISSlicer's gcode output to see if that's the reason.
     
  5. fpex

    fpex Well-Known Member

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    DO you print the skirt? The corner looks like the print very first point
     
  6. PsyVision

    PsyVision Moderator
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    @fpex I think that is the top of the cube and as orcinus says that the head stops there after printing before moving to dock at the end of the print for example. The pause is probably causing some extra melty badness
     
  7. fpex

    fpex Well-Known Member

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    Yes, best is always to put as end code a movement up or homing of Y
     
  8. mike01hu

    mike01hu Well-Known Member

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    While I completely agree that getting the nozzle face parallel to the bed, I am less happy that when you do a nozzle change, the reference changes and the process must be repeated, so wearing away the nozzle. Just remember that any nozzle height adjustment by quashing those O-rings is going to tilt the nozzle. Chase's design gives a better chance of setting and
    maintaining good tramming. Removing the "hedge" artifacts is also a case of getting the extrusion flow rate spot-on, so with S3D you can define a finishing process to fine tune the rate on those final layers.
     
    #8 mike01hu, Jun 9, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2016
  9. orcinus

    orcinus Well-Known Member

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    That is the top, yes.
    There is no skirt, fwiw (on this print, at least).

    Trust me, no amount of extrusion flow rate adjustment will help you if your nozzle is not perfectly flat, smooth and perfectly perpendicular to the bed. I've tried it. With more than one hotend and nozzle.

    Speaking of which, i had this exact same issue before, with an E3D v5 and an 0.25 nozzle.
    The solution was the same.

    Regarding nozzle changes - yes, you would need to tram again, if most of your problem was due to misalignment. If it was mostly due to nozzle geometry and finish (as it is with smaller diameters), then you'll likely not need to re-tram or will need to remove only a very very small amount of material.

    Speaking of which - how often do you swap nozzles back and forth anyway?
     
  10. orcinus

    orcinus Well-Known Member

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    None of this would be necessary with a nozzle with a wider flat around the orifice and a round-edged, blunt (filleted) tip, by the way.
     
  11. mike01hu

    mike01hu Well-Known Member

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    It depends on what and who I am printing for but the crazy height adjustment of this hotend is more the issue for consistent nozzle tramming and dual nozzle offset. Don't forget that nozzles do wear and there will be radiusing of the outer edges, due to filament content and dragging across traces, that will give the effect of a too narrow outer nozzle diameter that the fine emery paper technique does address.

    Extrusion rate has always worked for me over the last 3+ years unless I was using cheap filament. The advantage of S3D has been being able to add processes to deal with this rather than watching for the moment to tune the flow. Anyway, I always do a test piece prior to a major print or after a filament change as the filament's hygroscopic characteristics can affect performance, although this is less of an issue now that I implement dry storage conditions. Of course, top/bottom finish may be more important for some users:D

    You are sort of right about nozzle width but there are other reasons for minimising the width that I have forgotten about, so maybe @Sanjay can provide some info as nozzle dimensions are a black art:eek:. There was a lot of debate about this on another forum (don't ask whicho_O) a couple of years back.
     
  12. orcinus

    orcinus Well-Known Member

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    It's not just the outer diameter and geometry of the E3D nozzles that's a mystery to me.

    I also don't get how the wider orifice nozzles are shorter, while smaller orifice nozzles are longer, when fluid dynamics dictate it should be the opposite to get laminar flow.
     
  13. elmoret

    elmoret Administrator

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    orcinus and mike01hu like this.
  14. orcinus

    orcinus Well-Known Member

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    Ah, my bad, missed that drawing.
    If they're internally truly longer the greater the diameter, that's good.

    Although, the lengths in the table seem a slight bit short.
    If memory serves, to guarantee laminar flow / no entrance effect, the length should be approx. 5-10x the diameter, the lengths in the table appear to be 2x. I might be misremembering the rule of thumb, though.
     
  15. R Design

    R Design Well-Known Member

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    Presumably there are other factors that come to bear?

    I wonder what happens to plastic when it sits in a hot thin tube? Or perhaps retraction results in "breakage"? Or...

    Ordered a huge book - a bible - on extrusion but it's sitting in the wrong country for me right now and too heavy to forward.... ;-)
     
  16. Tom De Bie

    Tom De Bie Well-Known Member

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    Which book if I may ask?
     
  17. orcinus

    orcinus Well-Known Member

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    Let us know what it says (and if it says) anything on ABS and PLA Re number w/ regards to extrusion temperature, please.
    There doesn't seem to be any solid info on it in the public domain.
     
  18. R Design

    R Design Well-Known Member

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  19. Tom De Bie

    Tom De Bie Well-Known Member

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    What a complicated book. pieuwww
    Have fun reading that one ;)
     
  20. elmoret

    elmoret Administrator

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    Longer nozzles have been tried by E3D, led to jamming especially with PLA.
     

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