Printing problem with E3D V6 Titan Bowden

Discussion in 'Calibration, Help, and Troubleshooting' started by Tony Sun, Jan 17, 2018.

  1. Tony Sun

    Tony Sun Active Member

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    upped pressure advance to 0.2 and lowered retraction to 4.6mm distance, 55m/s. Come back 20 minutes later and got a blockage... Great...

    Update:
    I shouldn't have messed with pressure advance, full blockage, this V6 is a goner, now I need to get another one...
     
    #21 Tony Sun, Jan 20, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2018
  2. Spoon Unit

    Spoon Unit Well-Known Member

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    Why can't you just pull the blockage out from the top? Every blockage I've had has just required me to pull the filament out (typically giving just enough heat to the hot end to allow movement - say 145 degrees).
     
  3. Tony Sun

    Tony Sun Active Member

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    Believe me I've tried, I went up to 235C, , still couldn't pull it out, and then heat gun got it out, but the heatbrake is toasted, and the nozzle tip too blocked, it's all right, another one is on the way, just a lesson learned, don't go away from the print when you're testing something that could cause blockage.
     
  4. dc42

    dc42 Well-Known Member

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    Like I said originally, if you use pressure advance you must reduce retraction - although I guess I didn't suggest by how much. With pressure advance of 0.2 I would reduce retraction by 2mm, then increase it again if I get blobs at the start of travel moves.

    My favourite way to unblock V6 heatbreaks is to put the heatbreak in just-boiled water, wait 30 seconds, then pull the filament out of the top using 2 pairs of pliers. This worked for me recently after the heatsink fan connection failed.
     
  5. Tony Sun

    Tony Sun Active Member

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    ah okay, well I still learned alot (albeit expensive experience) I've put those toasted nozzles and heatbreak to the side for now, I will do more testing once the new one come in and try what you said dc42. Thanks.

    EDIT: I did read you said need to have less retraction for pressure advance, but I misinterpreted, after I put in 0.2 pressure advance, I was thinking 0.2mm less in retraction xD (hence the 4.8 to 4.6), now I know xD.
     
  6. Tony Sun

    Tony Sun Active Member

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    Got my new V6, and put it on with these settings:
    pressure advance 0.1 , extrusion 1.08, retraction distance 3.6mm, retraction speed 60mm/s. Results are pretty close. However if you look in the pics there are small blobs, how should I go from this, do I change pressure advance to 0.2, and retraction distance to 2.8mm, or same pressure advance but retration to 3.8 or 4.0mm?

    Link to the pics: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/6gxsgrnc55wzyz9/AACAcBvWvkQCL0yAGpgmt1jFa?dl=0

    So close!
     
  7. Spoon Unit

    Spoon Unit Well-Known Member

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    That's looking so much better. The blobs you're left with are a physical result of the end of the draw pattern for that layer. They do look large at present, but more notable is that they're all over the place, and you would probably prefer the gather them all together. No matter what you do, at least in my experience, you will not be able to completely eradicate them. You just have to take them into account, compensate for them, and depending on the model and it's intended purpose, position them accordingly.

    Firstly, you might want to try to reduce the overall size of them. It seems that the pressure advance is not fully reducing the build up of material at the end of the nozzle on the end of the perimeter draw. You could experiment with increase this number a little more, or reducing it. If you look at the print, do you think the blob is the result of the start of the draw, or the end? If it's at the start, it could be diminished by drawing outlines from in-to-out instead of out-to-in. If it's at the end, it's going to either be the result of oozing at the end of the draw (i.e. pressure advance not fully working), or the fact that the head remains in position during the retract. Given the vast difference in the end result with the new equipment, you might test another print with zero retraction. The pressure advance should still try to work to reduce pressure at the end of the circuit. You could also try to configure the coast-at-end feature in the slicer to further lower the pressure prior to the move (start small;say 0.2mm).

    Once you've got the blobs as best as possible, consider the benchy is purely decorative. As such, collecting all the blobs together is an effective way to hide the nastiness from view. Look at the retractions you get in S3D for each of these settings:

    upload_2018-1-25_10-52-0.png

    upload_2018-1-25_10-52-16.png


    upload_2018-1-25_10-52-54.png

    upload_2018-1-25_10-52-39.png


    upload_2018-1-25_10-53-56.png

    upload_2018-1-25_10-53-33.png

    Every model is different. Some you'll want to collect in one place (particularly decorative), some you'll want in fastest print speed (mainly functional part that won't be inspected closely again), and some you'll want positioned randomly (printing screws and things were any seaming of the bulges will strongly impact performance).
     
  8. dc42

    dc42 Well-Known Member

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    How long is your Bowden tube, and is it regular 2mm ID tubing or 1.9mm Capricorn tubing? If it's longer than 300mm of regular tubing then I suggest you try increasing retraction a little, e.g. 4mm.
     
  9. Tony Sun

    Tony Sun Active Member

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    I am almost 100% sure it's 2mm ID tubing, yes it's about 380mm long.

    Update on the print: I just tried 4mm, and the old issue happened again, so basically I can't go above 3.6mm. Should I now try maybe 0.2 pressure advance and 3mm retraction distance instead?
     
  10. Tony Sun

    Tony Sun Active Member

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    #30 Tony Sun, Jan 26, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2018
  11. Tony Sun

    Tony Sun Active Member

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    Sorry for so many post, but I'm gonna try amazon's PLA instead of Zyltech's PLA just for this machine, one reason being these Zyltech PLA was bought during their huge sale, and alot of their people had problems with that batch so I'm wondering if it's that, as sometimes it would print fine but then suddenly clog/jam.

    I will say this though, 0.2 pressure advance and 2.2mm retract distance was working not bad until it clogged about half way through the print. i will be trying the Amazon PLA tomorrow and report back. Thi sis the one I'm talking about:

    https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B01CXA3CL8/_encoding=UTF8?coliid=I3PAIPQF2F5LQ1&colid=3QBPME60SJLD7&psc=0
     
  12. Spoon Unit

    Spoon Unit Well-Known Member

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    Clever marketing there. AMZ3D. It looks like it's an Amazon brand, but I don't think it is. Some commentors think it's a Hatchbox rebrand ...

    https://www.reddit.com/r/3Dprinting/comments/5h3xst/amz3d_filaments_are_29_off_at_least_from_1588/

    Anyway...

    The sound you extruder is making is the sound of the hobbed bolt ripping filament away, i.e. it's a jam. The filament can't be pushed further so the feed gets destroyed by the bolt and you can see the build up of particles on the bolt.

    Will repeat, retraction doesn't look to be your friend so far. Why not try a print with zero retraction and zero z-lift just to see how it looks.

    0% outline overlap is a bad idea in my experience. I use 15% or more. This equates to 15% of the extrude width (i.e. 15% of 0.48), so about 0.07 overlap. Especially on the first layer, this can be vital to getting a solid base on which to build the rest of the model.
     
  13. Tony Sun

    Tony Sun Active Member

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    Hi Spoon, thanks for the info, I finally decided to check this Zyltech filament that I bought during their sale, in which people reported as having some bad batches that caused jams/clogs, and I didn't bother to because before having used them for a whole year, they were fine on all my other printers, but I guess what I didn't realize is the others (Cr-10, Anycubic i3 Mega, Anycubic Delta, TEVO tornado, Tronxy X5s) probably had hotends that weren't as precise as the V6 so I guess they were more forgiving. I checked the purple Zyltech I was using and oh boy, from 1.70mm all the way to 1.81mm, very unacceptable, got the bad batch I guess.

    I then switched to the Amz3d I bought, which as you said is just a rebranded Hatchbox just a little cheaper, but more readily available here in Canada. used almost the exact same settings (just lowered retraction to 1.8mm instead of 2.00mm and temperature upped to 195 as I've heard it does need a little higher temp, also outline overlap to 20%) and here are the results.:

    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/slk5vlsbzzl2mtb/AACX3mUgNUgkqxjfkAQK3UODa?dl=0

    damn pretty good, so basically it seems like I need to use high quality filament for this printer, so now I'm gonna try 2.0mm retraction distance, and I read your post before about removing those blobs. I am using inside out as you guys recommended, so I will try also now the 0.1mm coast at end, see if that works, then try 0.2mm as you said. Wish me luck, and no more Zyltech PLA for this HEVO, only top like Hatchbox or Amz3d, which is getting really good reviews it seems.

    P.S. also using 0.2 pressure advance.
     
  14. Tony Sun

    Tony Sun Active Member

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    Update: 2.0mm is working, so it's the crappy filament confirmed, about those small weird small blobs on the outside, I thought it was at the end, turns out it wasn't, (so coasting did nothing) it was the inside when starting puts a little too much that it actually pushes out into the outer walls. I'm also wondering if it's possibly overextrusion, as you can see here, the benchy words can't be read it looks too thick?
    (a little hard to show on camera).
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ynlfosr9f8s0lal/2018-01-26 23.31.07.jpg?dl=0
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/s3vto0pafu8sbec/2018-01-26 23.31.36.jpg?dl=0

    Should I try extra restart distance and set it as negative say -0.1mm for starters? as it's the starting point that gives the minor blobs in the inner walls that is going out to the outer walls.
     
  15. Spoon Unit

    Spoon Unit Well-Known Member

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    Collect up the blobs into corners for a better finish (at least in my opinion). Select a layer start point that suits you.
    Regarding the lettering on the back of the benchy, don't worry too much. I've yet to see a really good result from an FFD printer. You could try a 0.15mm nozzle and 0.05mm resolution if you want to try to get the best result, but it's going to cost you in time to build the rest of the model. If you want that sort of detail, you probably have the wrong printer. A Form2 printer can do a pretty awesome job of that writing ...

    http://www.3dbenchy.com/wp-content/...-SLA-3D-printer-form2.creativetools.se-v6.jpg

    Great that you've finally got a great print. If the blobs are occurring at the start, that's the result of not-yet-fully-dialled-in pressure advance settings. Keep trying. You could also fiddle it with a - value in the extra restart distance, but I would try to tune in the pressure advance first.
     
  16. Tony Sun

    Tony Sun Active Member

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    Thanks Spoon will try that, I'm currently at 0.2 pressure advance, should I lower it or up it? I have no idea cause first time doing it xD
     
  17. Spoon Unit

    Spoon Unit Well-Known Member

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    Mine is 0.075 at present I think, but my feed tube is only about 68mm. I'm only guessing if I give you advice there. Try 0.15 next I reckon.
     
  18. Tony Sun

    Tony Sun Active Member

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    Made an error, I've currently got
    M572 D0 S0.1 in config.g, but on the Duet Wifi, the extruder is not D0, that is X motor, so I'm changing it to D3 (which is where E0 actually is) and testing now.

    EDIT: Never mind it should be D0 it's the extruder number not the drive number. Well I'm getting beat on this small blob thing right now, here are my newest settings:
    pressure advance 0.15 (I have tried 0.1, 0.2, and this 0.15). Retraction at 2.20, extra restart distance -0.20mm, Coasting distance 0.20.

    I can't put the extra restart or coasting above 0.4 I think, when I tried that, (this was on 0.2 pressure advance though), started "underextruding" on the smoke stack.

    Gah xD, so clooooose.
     
    #38 Tony Sun, Jan 28, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2018
  19. Spoon Unit

    Spoon Unit Well-Known Member

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    It's just down to fine tuning, logging what you do, and marking your results so that you can compare to the settings used. Sooner or later you will get there. However, remember that no matter what you do, you will always have an end to the perimter draw, and that will result in either a blob or a hole/seam.

    By the way, to quell your fear about the v6 being picky about filament, I tried a benchy with HobbyKing black PLA, which is about as cheap as they come. I've been tweaking my settings also as I go, but the last one I printed was about the best result I've ever seen. For this print, I went fairly slow, 0.2 layers, cheap black PLA, 0.4 nozzle.


    upload_2018-1-28_9-53-57.png upload_2018-1-28_9-54-26.png upload_2018-1-28_9-54-57.png upload_2018-1-28_9-55-18.png upload_2018-1-28_9-55-37.png
     
  20. dc42

    dc42 Well-Known Member

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    Coast-to-end is a substitute for (but less effective than) pressure advance, so it's unlikely that you need both. I'll publish a pressure advance calibration GCode file sometime.
     

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