Replacement parts cooling fans not working either

Discussion in 'Getting Started' started by John Meacham, Apr 11, 2020.

  1. John Meacham

    John Meacham Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2019
    Messages:
    49
    Likes Received:
    17
    I was one of the ones that received fans that would not respond to PWM with my inital order (with the grey and blue label) I was sent replacement fans that are white and blue and marked WINSINN however they barely work at all in a different way.

    Even at maximum they need a push to get started and barely push any air and I can't get them to spin at all on lower speeds. Are there other changes needed? I verified the duex is putting out the correct PWM voltage by plugging in my hot end fan to the same channel and it works as expected.

    Any help would be appreciated, I hope I don't have to disassemble everything again...
     
  2. Jonas

    Jonas Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    Messages:
    71
    Likes Received:
    31
    I had the same problem. I think it has something’ to do with the long cables, because i is the worst at tool 0. I ended up putting back the first fans and run them at 100%. At least it works when I print PLA. I might look into this again in the future, but for now, I don’t have the energy.
     
  3. John Meacham

    John Meacham Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2019
    Messages:
    49
    Likes Received:
    17
    There shouldn't be an appreciable voltage drop over the cable, 5 feet of 28 awg wire would have 0.15V drop at 0.2amps. However the fans connected directly to the duet have a different PWM rate than the ones connected to the DueX so that may affect things.

    There appear to be three fans out there in the wild
    Blue + Grey - works only at 100% and is very strong
    Blue + White WINSINN - barely works, even at 100%
    All White - works? this is the one i don't have but have seen in pictures.

    Can anyone verify the full white label one works properly? Are others having the same issues with the WINSINN ones?
     
  4. John Pickens

    John Pickens Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2018
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    3
    I posted the part at the end of this coment in the ToolChanger section, but just saw this thread in this section.
    I am having exactly this problem, the Winsinn fan (Blue and White) replacement fans are extremely weak.
    Basically, they don't do any cooling to speak of, even at 100%.
    @Greg Holloway , is there a fix for this?

    Previous comment below:

    I've been busy converting all my bowden tools to ADD (almost direct drive) with Titans and Flex3Drive gears driven by nema 11 motors.

    Anyway, now I'm working on tweaking my printer settings.
    For PLA, the cooling fans are just too weak to work very well.

    I think the problem is that the Winnsin fans need an upgrade to higher capacity.
    Has anyone tried other cooling solutions?

    I know someone posted a wraparound duct design, but I really think the problem is lack of power in the fan.

    Comments and suggestions are welcome!
    Thanks,
    John
     
  5. Greg Holloway

    Greg Holloway Administrator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    Messages:
    969
    Likes Received:
    619
    The fan duct is probably more the likely problem. I'm not very good at them so they are a bit crappy. I'd spend some time looking for, or designing an alternative.
     
  6. John Pickens

    John Pickens Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2018
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    3
    I don't think so, I removed the fan from the tool, and ramped it to M106 P4 S255, and it was VERY weak.
    I believe it to be a fan problem.
     
  7. Greg Holloway

    Greg Holloway Administrator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    Messages:
    969
    Likes Received:
    619

    How many of that brand do you have?
     
  8. John Pickens

    John Pickens Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2018
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    3
    @Greg Holloway :
    I have six fans for the toolchanger from E3D.
    Two of the "bad" non-pwm capable fans I received with my original Toolchanger order.
    Two of the "good" Winsinn fans which you guys replaced.
    And two more "good" Winsinn fans from my subsequent V6 Toolchanger kits I ordered very recently.

    I also just placed an Amazon order for another brand, same form factor fans. These are rated for 3.8CFM, vs 2.6 for the Winsinn fans.
     
  9. John Meacham

    John Meacham Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2019
    Messages:
    49
    Likes Received:
    17
    It doesn't appear to be the duct. The fan barely turns even when not installed in the duct, at S255 it doesn't even reliably start spinning on its own. The original fan is loud and strong at S255 (but doesn't scale down due to the PWM issue)
     
  10. Greg Holloway

    Greg Holloway Administrator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    Messages:
    969
    Likes Received:
    619

    Sounds like a dodgy fan, drop an email to support@e3d-online.com
     
  11. John Pickens

    John Pickens Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2018
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    3
    Well, if its a dodgy fan, I have four of them.
    I'll wait until I get the two fans I bought locally, and let you know.
     
  12. Greg Holloway

    Greg Holloway Administrator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    Messages:
    969
    Likes Received:
    619
    You are running 24v?
     
  13. John Pickens

    John Pickens Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2018
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    3
    Yes, though the replacement fans are 12V. I'll be running a buck converter feeding the + side of the fan cable set to 12V. Leaving the Duet board + fan line 24V disconnected.
    Duet says you can do this, as the PWM switches the - line to ground, so the lower + voltage to the fan defines the fan voltage.
    This leaves the option to up the voltage a tad to increase the airflow. But I'll let you know how 12V at M106 S255 works for airflow
    vs. the Winsinn 24V fans.
     
    #13 John Pickens, Apr 27, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2020
  14. Joe Pomo

    Joe Pomo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2019
    Messages:
    71
    Likes Received:
    27
    I have the White label one that came with my TC kit and it works.

    I installed only one of my replacement fans (Blue & White), but it too barely blows when set to 100%. So, the original good fan works & the new fan blows very lightly. Both have the same PWM settings in config.g
     
  15. John Pickens

    John Pickens Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2018
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    3
    @Greg Holloway , OK, I did the 12V conversion for the different cooling fan.
    It is the same form factor as the 24V Winsinn versions, it is this fan:
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07RNZF97F/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
    Wathai 3.86CFM, yes, I know, sleeve bearing, but it was quickly available, so I gave it a try.

    First impressions:
    MUCH higher cooling air output at S255 than the Winsinn fans.
    I even upped it more by adjusting my buck converter to 14.1 V

    It definitely prints the Benchy bow better, so it isn't crashing the fan housing on the curled bow like it was, and is able to complete the print.
    I'm still not real happy, though, with the curling which is still happening, so I think I also want a better duct.

    Didn't someone post up a modified V6 duct for the ToolChanger?
    I remember seeing it, but can't find it in a search.

    If anyone has a link, please send it along.
    Thanks,
    John
     
    Greg Holloway likes this.

Share This Page