IN DEVELOPMENT SETTINGS Clever3D PEI coated aluminum bed

Discussion in 'Guides, Mods, and Upgrades' started by Ephemeris, Jun 20, 2016.

  1. Ephemeris

    Ephemeris Well-Known Member

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    Some filament types print best on a polyetherimide or PEI (aka Ultem) coated bed. @JesperJuul discovered that clever3d.com would make custom aluminum beds with PEI chemically deposited onto the aluminum.

    https://clever3d.de/epages/7a4290fc...6cc-9b99-eadef22228e2/Products/c3d-DDP-PEI-sw

    @Alex9779 improved upon their offering by supplying clever3D with drawings for a special BigBox bed with a recessed edge so the bed clips rest below the print surface so that we never have to worry about the nozzles hitting the clips.

    Now that a few of us have these beds, which are thermally quite different from the stock borosilicate ones, we should share the bed settings that are working for us.

    I'll start with my current project using colorFabb HT (aka Amphora HT5300)

    colorFabb HT
    First layer bed temperature 125C
    First layer hot-end temperature 280C
    First layer speed 25%
    Layer 5 bed temperature 120C
    Layer 5 hot-end temperature 265C

    Please contribute your own best settings for the clever3D bed.
     
    #1 Ephemeris, Jun 20, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2017
  2. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    Colorfabb XT
    Bed Temperature 85° C
    Hot-end Temperature 240° C
     
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  3. Björn

    Björn Well-Known Member

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    Torwell ABS; 120C bed temp and 250 hotend seems to work as a starting point (make sure PCB is pressed against bed)
     
  4. Stian Indal Haugseth

    Stian Indal Haugseth Well-Known Member

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    I would be careful with 120 and ABS on PEI. ASA filament is supposed to have exactly the same properties as ABS and I almost ruined the bed with 110C. 100 was not enough and 103 to 105 worked pretty OK. Of course I don't remember the hot end temp on the move.
     
  5. Björn

    Björn Well-Known Member

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    No problem for me this time at least, piece more or less popped of by itself at about 70C on cooldown
     
  6. dc42

    dc42 Well-Known Member

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    Please note, the black version of the Clever3D bed plate works best with the IR sensor. That way, the dominant reflection is from the top of the PEI coating.

    Another good way to use PEI is to get a thin PEI sheet and spray the underside with matt black barbecue/stove paint. Cure the paint in an oven at 170C for 2 hours, then stick it down to the glass using heat-resistant adhesive film.
     
  7. Björn

    Björn Well-Known Member

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    Ok, my settings for PLA (Torwell brand):
    First layer:
    Bed 70C (soak for at least 6-7 minutes @70C)
    Nozzle: 210
    Bed temp raps down to 63C in 4 steps (63C from layer 4)
    Nozzle temp to 205C from layer 2

    Parts are loose from the bed at room temp
     
    #7 Björn, Aug 20, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2016
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  8. Spoon Unit

    Spoon Unit Well-Known Member

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    Just completed my first print with the new bed using Rigid.Ink PLA in Metallic Gold and Khaki

    Rigid.Ink PLA Metallic Gold
    First layer bed temperature 60C
    First layer hot-end temperature 210C
    First layer speed 50%
    Layer 3 hot-end temperature 200C
    Part cooling fan on Layer 5 @ 25%

    Zero warp and everything stuck beautifully with no faffing around with the bed. This was straight out of the box and onto the machine. I should probably clean it next.

    ApplicationFrameHost_2017-01-12_18-21-54.jpg

    Rigid.Ink PLA Yellow
    First layer bed temperature 70C
    Layer 2 bed temperature 60C
    First layer hot-end temperature 210C
    First layer speed 50%
    Layer 3 hot-end temperature 200C
    Part cooling fan on Layer 5 @ 25%

    Seems that the yellow wants a warmer bed to stick to initially. Lowered the bed after so i'm not pushing too much heat up into the model for good. I know it won't come unstuck until about 38, so I'm tempted to push second layers down a bit further.

    Edit: 13th Jan. Upped bed temp 5 degrees to battle peeling. Added findings for Yellow
     
    #8 Spoon Unit, Jan 12, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2017
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  9. Spoon Unit

    Spoon Unit Well-Known Member

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    E3D Edge Grey28
    First layer bed temperature 85C
    First layer hot-end temperature 220C
    First layer speed 50%
    Part cooling fan on Layer 5 @ 25%

    Learning from the PLA that maybe the bed may need to be a little hotter, added 5 degrees to my best previous knowledge and had no problems. I also thought i'd try removing z-hop in this run as I recall someone saying it was a way to remove/lower stringing, which Edge seems to want to do.

    ApplicationFrameHost_2017-01-13_22-13-04.jpg

    As you can see, stringing is not bad, but it's not gone. I thought the strings would remove just by rubbing my fingers over them, but they're pretty strong strings. Another thing I noticed was that, though I knew my calibration was good, something was off on the first layer, and this stuff was also overextruding. I tune the flow down first to 98, then to 95. And the base layer got progressively better as it completed the base layer of the three models.

    ApplicationFrameHost_2017-01-13_22-16-20.jpg

    It's hard not to be impressed with this bed; maybe blown away is a better word. With just no prep at all, Edge layed down and didn't come unstuck at any single point around any of the models. Finally, when the bed had cooled, the model seemed to be connected only by static electricity. They would slide around the bed without coming off. Very weird and cool. The second photo is a shot over the top of the completely flat bases.

    ApplicationFrameHost_2017-01-13_22-19-06.jpg ApplicationFrameHost_2017-01-13_22-20-04.jpg

    The end results stacked nicely.

    ApplicationFrameHost_2017-01-13_22-20-55.jpg

    While I'm on the topic of Grey28, I also printed out a cat food can lid and stuck it in the dishwasher to see if it would withstand the heat.

    ApplicationFrameHost_2017-01-13_22-22-13.jpg

    So that's a know to Edge Grey28 and the dishwasher, just in case you were wondering.
    Update ... just holding it onto a warm bed enabled me to re-straighten it.
     
    #9 Spoon Unit, Jan 13, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2017
  10. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    I had similar results with the beds on my BB and Edge. Though with a silver PEI plate on my UM2 the parts sticked so well that when I removed the parts they ripped away the coating
     
  11. Spoon Unit

    Spoon Unit Well-Known Member

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    Interesting, and terrifying. I did note some residue on the coating, but it was removed 95% with just a wipe, 4% more with a meth-spirit wipe, and there's maybe 1% residue remaining. Ripping away the coating is the last thing we want. Did you use exactly the same temps? Did you pull it away before it fully cooled?
     
  12. Ephemeris

    Ephemeris Well-Known Member

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    Usually the various polyester/copolyesters (nGen, XT, HT, T-glase, etc) POP off at some temperature. I would NEVER recommend pulling a part off that resists unless it's cooled all the way to room temperature. In that case, caution is warranted
     
  13. Falc.be

    Falc.be Well-Known Member

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    If someone can confirm there is no lifting and warping off the bed with colorfabb HT, I will become very interested
     
  14. Ephemeris

    Ephemeris Well-Known Member

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    HT sticks quite well to the Clever3D bed. That is not to say you can't get corner lifting. HT has a weak tendency to warp (a fraction of what you get with ABS thank goodness). Typical parts for me require no special procedures. Most troublesome pieces can probably be dealt with by using a brim. The key with HT is to lay down layer 1 hot. And of course you need to be calibrated and level.
     
  15. Spoon Unit

    Spoon Unit Well-Known Member

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    No success yet with ABS.
     
  16. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    Yes and no...
    The PEI plate behaves completely different in any UM2. Worse IMHO. I have no trouble printing HT on the BB, sticks well and gets loose when cooled.
    The residue thing is normal from my point of view I have the same... I wipe it with Acetone and after some wipes it is gone...
    In the UM2 HT does not stick at all or comes loose when at about layer 10-20 at 0.2mm layer height... Very strange... For XT and PLA it feels the same as on the BB but Edge and HT are totally different... No idea why... I measured the temp externally and they are all the same...
    Concerning Edge and ripping the coating: the bed was cold, the part was like molded to the bed. I heated up and let it cool. But nothing happened... First layer looked perfect not squished into the bed... I tried several copies of the same part with different settings. Using a temp about 10° lower than on the BB made it a little better but still hard to get it off. I still have the option to turn the plate. But that's is no option for the ClipFix design on the BB... But as said I have had no issues on the BB getting parts in Edge off. NinjaFlex sticks also hard but as the material itself is soft you can peel it off or help with a sharp knife or scraper...
     
    #16 Alex9779, Jan 15, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2017
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  17. Syko_Symatic

    Syko_Symatic Well-Known Member

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    E3D Everyday ABS:

    Hot End: 240
    Bed: 110

    Didnt even pop of at the end!

    Tip: If you have a can of compressed air turn it upside down and blow it onto the base of your part. The fluid inside comes out super cold and made the part pop right off.
     
  18. Spoon Unit

    Spoon Unit Well-Known Member

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    Just printed my first fairly large ABS item with total success. Zero warpage

    E3D Everyday ABS - Black

    First layer bed temperature 115C
    First layer hot-end temperature 250C
    First layer speed 50%
    Layer 3 hot-end temperature 235C
    Layer 2 bed temperature 105C
    Part cooling fan off

    Also today was the first time I tried Colorfab Ngen on the new bed. After the first item detached I decided to keep the bed warm and the hot end static, which worked well.

    Colorfabb Ngen - Purple
    First layer bed temperature 80C
    First layer hot-end temperature 220C
    First layer speed 50%
    Layer 3 hot-end temperature 205C
    Part cooling at 50% from Layer 5
     
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  19. markoaurelije

    markoaurelije Active Member

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    Hey,
    I just installed my clever3D black PEI plate. Printed couple of times on clean surface with EDGE (83°C) and HT (103°C) on it. Didn't force the parts off it. They just came of really easy when coooled down. Very impressed with that.
    Now I can see small marks on the plate that I cant wipe off. Like the coating is damaged. I was looking very close, the nozzle didn't dig in to plate, so it's not that. Do any of you have similar issues? Am I doing something wrong?
     
  20. Ephemeris

    Ephemeris Well-Known Member

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    I sometimes see similar afterimages. Maybe some sort of oily effect? If you can't feel it with a fingernail I don't think it means much of anything and it will fade.
     

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