Simply3D S3D odd extruder movement; crashing into sides

Discussion in 'BigBox General Chat' started by Steven, Jun 5, 2016.

  1. Steven

    Steven Well-Known Member

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    I'm running S3d connected via the USB direct.

    Even if I select Auto-Home from the lcd, S3D will try to slowly move the extruders the far left binding the motor.
    If I physically move it it will continue and then attempt some odd movement that could be ooze bucket wipe, or not.

    And then when the print finishes, it again proceeds to crash into the left side. It's like it wont read the x-axis stop.
    I confirmed that part bypressing 'home X' the result is crashing.
    Y-Axis home seems to work.

    It clearly doesnt' know where it is on the x/y plane.

    please help. I am using the recommended bigbox_direct_dual.fff file.
    I have a BB-1.0-Dual. running RC6.
     
    #1 Steven, Jun 5, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2016
  2. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    Despite S3D all movement should work from the LCD. If homing does not work from the LCD S3D can't fix that and if the machine is not homed properly all moves are a risk.

    So the first step for you would be to get the homing from the LCD workings...

    What does the machine do when you auto home from the LCD?
     
  3. Steven

    Steven Well-Known Member

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    Homing from the LCD does and always works.

    As expected x and Y home to 0,0 and then move to 5,5.
    The S3d must be giving commands.
     
  4. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    To analyse such effect the best is to look in the gcode file.
    You can post it here and we or I have a look at it...
     
  5. Steven

    Steven Well-Known Member

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    I attached the gcode. It's the small corner top that hold the metal spacer for the bed.
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    Hmmm there are several issues with the file IMHO...
    1. You are printing with two materials/nozzles, don't think you wanna do that, the skirt is printed with second extruder, the part with the first one. Also the tool change script is active which is not needed if you print only with one material/nozzle
    2. You have no home command in the start script, you must ensure you ran an auto home command from the LCD before starting the print.
    But so far there is no indication why it should crash in the sides, other than that you have to be at homing position when starting the print...
     
  7. Stefan

    Stefan Well-Known Member

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    Just my 2 cents...
    Was going to say "use the new BigBox Dual.fff from https://github.com/BigBox3D/Simplify3D"
    but I looked into the file and from my limited knowledge of it I would say not use it yet..

    Please Correct me if I'm totally wrong here.



    If you want to print with 1 head, as I do right now, you can use the following:

    In Edit Process Windows
    - Click the "Show Advanced (Settings)" button
    - on Temperatures tap set the temps for the used extruder
    - Set the temp for the NOT used extruder to 0
    - on Scripts tab add the g-code below the "Start G-Code" sub tab
    - on "Tool Change G-Code" remove every thing
    - Set others stuff as layers, infill and support as you like
    Now you should be able to get a S3D working...


    Here is (almost) my start g-code (I'm not at home so this is just the basics.)

    ;BigBox Printer Start Script Begin

    ;Homing
    M117 Homing...
    G28
    ;Start Heating
    T0
    M104 S[extruder0_temperature]; this will take the layer 1 temperature for extruder 0
    M140 S[bed0_temperature]; this will take the layer 1 temperature for bed

    ;Dock
    G1 X70 Y200 F3000
    G1 X70 Y240 F3000

    ;Finish Heating
    ; Bed should be hot by the time the hot end is finished heating
    M109 S[extruder0_temperature]; wait for Hot end to reach temp

    ;Prime Extruder
    T0 ;Select Extruder 0
    G92 E0 ;Reset E
    G1 E10 F200 ;Extruder 10mm
    G92 E0 ;Reset E

    ;Undock
    G1 X105 Y235 F3000
    G1 X105 Y200 F3000

    ;BigBox Printer Start Script End
     
  8. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    Ya well, kinda yes...

    Nothing to correct...

    Can do what @Stefan said, his script looks good or try what I posted here: https://forum.e3d-online.com/index.php?threads/follow-up-guinea-pigs-required.1492/
    They have a similar script and the auto configuration of extruders works...
     
  9. Steven

    Steven Well-Known Member

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    So this is what bugs me. That gcode was generated by S3D. The BB dual fff file was imported. The BB WAS auto-homed prior to each print. yet it crashes into the sides, doesnt know where the ooz bucket is. It's nearly untrust-worthy.

    If this is signs of things to come, the S3D product is NOT going to last much in my house. I already hate it.

    I really wish we had an option to OPT out of bundling S3D with the kickstarter kits. I'll bet the BigBox team still has to pay S3D for each and every copy they sold thru the kickstarter campaign. Good for S3d, bad for those that don't want it. Hmmm. 465 backers, $149retail, thats more than $69k in instant sales!

    I'll probably be starting up my trusty Repetier Host this weekend. At least with that, its easy to understand and much better at LIVE USB printing control. Anyone have a Repetier Host DUAL extruder config file I could import?
     
  10. Chase.Wichert

    Chase.Wichert Well-Known Member

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    It sounds like some improper start up gcode. I had to modify the dump position, it went too far to the right and kept hitting the top acrylic.
     
  11. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    This is not S3Ds fault, it is just the start code IMHO. If you use other slicers then you have to write that code yourself or use something based on what is available...


    S3D was an option...

    Take a look in this thread: https://forum.e3d-online.com/index.php?threads/follow-up-guinea-pigs-required.1492/
    The startup codes for the dual is fine, I printed with it as long as I had the V1.0 head mounted, the hybrid-dual are fine too because I am printing with them every day.
     
  12. Tom De Bie

    Tom De Bie Well-Known Member

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    I've been using Simply3D for about a year now and I'm happy I bought it. It does a better job at it then the free competition does. That being said...Slic3r is also very good at it, but I still prefer the best for my projects. So paying about 90€ for it was the least of my worries ;)
     
  13. Stefan

    Stefan Well-Known Member

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    From my point of view... BigBox and S3D is not a nice "out of the box" experience yet.
    This may be caused by the fact it is the first printer E3D has build and is selling.

    As we are early adopters it has a steep learning curve if you do not have much 3D printing experience.
    I wish they would have put more love into the S3D profiles from the beginning and maybe 1.1 was released a little to early.

    But we are getting there @Alex9779 has some nice profiles there I his linked thread above.
     
  14. Tom De Bie

    Tom De Bie Well-Known Member

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    BigBox is never ment to be an "out of the box" printer. It was created to be hacked the hell out of. S3D is an "out of the box" experience. The fact that there aren't (weren't) any settings for the BB has nothing to do with it. Saying that the combo of BB and S3D should be an "out of the box" experience is something you can wish for and is probably going to happen very soon, but has probably got more to do with the experience of the end-user, then the quality of both products.

    I don't understand some people here.
    Buying a "kit" at such a low price, ok it's not a Chinese made Prusa i3, and expect it to work like a Stratasys...
    I've read the entire forum by now and the mayority of the people are quite happy with their printer. Is it maybe that the mayority has got the nessecary experience with electronics and the technical skillset to follow "a" manual or am I seeing this wrong? Only a few people are positively contributing to this forum. And lastly there are the people who are waiting on their printer... Nagging away about how long they have been waiting on their "pre-ordered" or "kickstarter" printer. Both suggest you have to wait a long time after which you have to spend another long time building and more importantly calibrating the printer in stead of relying on people like Alex to do the hard work for them. Like I said before. The printer is meant to be hacked. If one doesn't understand the meaning of this. Then this printer probably isn't for those people.

    That's positive thinking. Just you wait... within a couple of years there will be an entire community around the BigBox and it will probably be coppied as much as the Prusa is today. The Chinese will want their piece of the pie ;)

    p.s. I know I'm probably stepping on lots of feet by now, but I needed to say this. Sorry if I offended someone with this rant...
     
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  15. Henry feldman

    Henry feldman Well-Known Member

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    Well your sentence needs to be edited to "follow a manual that isn't edited, correct or have adequate photos, etc and then after figuring it out on your own correct the manual for the company by contributing to it" is more accurate. I have built a CNC milling machine, and sure it's not as solid as an industrial CNC, but after building it per an accurate instruction manual, could reliably expect it to work (all CNCs require constant tweaking) as opposed to the profiles not being ready at launch time, firmware being massively out of date, and without a mild revolt here on the forums, @Alex9779 would be the unpaid software arm of the company. QA on parts was not there (glass chips in my parts, multiple bad linear bearings, cracked part, missing acrylic panel, and both Titan upgrades have the "bad hob machining" which have since been replaced. I will give them credit that the support from E3D has been superb for replacing parts. That all being said, none of that was "hacking". Hackable means it works but is easy to modify, not that it is barely functional without hacking it.
     
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  16. Tom De Bie

    Tom De Bie Well-Known Member

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    No, my sentence is just like I meant it :)
    Did you see the manual for the Prusa i3 two years ago?!
    It was a complete mess untill some kind contributors added to the wiki. The shop where I bought the kit gave me four links. All to wiki's made by the public. And still I managed to build it... took 13 hours to build and about double that to calibrate the machine until it printed to my liking...
    The fact that you got bad/missing parts is indeed something to complain about, but then you mail them and as you said they respond quickly and as a good company should replaced it...case closed.
    Missing profiles, firmware not up to date... are you kidding me?! Learn to work with the software. RTFM of Simplify3d and Marlin...adjust and callibrate it your self and don't rely on unpayed service ;)
     
  17. Bluemalu

    Bluemalu Well-Known Member

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    Gentlemen, with all my playing today I seem to have run into the same problem, however, I didn't have the issue before playing with the firmware.

    The issue is the latest versions of marlin when changing T0 and T1. I had some original G code that worked perfectly for my calibration cones (it took me a while to finally track down the offset is stored in e3d and not on the EEPROM or saved in the obvious places of the FFF (G code tab - tool 1 offset) or on the Tools - Options - model).

    I'm now looking for my old .HEX file to confirm this. The two .HEX for BigBox 1.0 dual on both of the GIT Hub sites may work, it's just spooked me that the home isn't 0,0. Just trying it now.

    Update: The current .HEX for BigBox Dual don't have the 9 point meshing for the bed and I'm struggling to find my old firmware. It's somewhere safe...

    Further Update: Located "old" hex code downloaded from Alex on the 28/05/16 Marlin.BigBox_Dual-RC, it doesn't have the changes proposed by Stefan if that's any help. There is no issues with T0 / T1 creep with this firmware.
     
    #17 Bluemalu, Jun 8, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2016
  18. Henry feldman

    Henry feldman Well-Known Member

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    OK, no. I am actually (on top of being a doctor) a programmer (I run the dev team at the hospital) and am more than capable of writing the firmware from scratch (I build surgical robots, large enterprise applications and firmware for all sorts of medical devices every day) but I DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO to make my device basically functional. I enjoy doing it to tweak but not basic functionality.

    Hackable
    means just that, i.e. it works great, but you can tweak to make new functionality easily; experimental is it might work if you are lucky, but be prepared to fix basic functional issues. This was not billed as experimental but hackable. That means that firmware is set to a recent version, not 3 versions behind, the knob turns in the correct direction, LCD connectors don't have to be reversed etc.

    Linux is very hackable but I don't expect to have to compile the RHEL kernel after install just to boot successfully; telling me I have to do so means you haven't finished the product; that's fine when I am working on an alpha (or maybe even a beta) but not in a released product.
     
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  19. Stefan

    Stefan Well-Known Member

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    Ok we are getting OT here... sorry.
    @Steven How is it going? Did you fix it? If yes what did you do?
     
  20. Steven

    Steven Well-Known Member

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    I connected up Repetier Host. It was having issues with connecting via USB as that's the way I use it on my Prusa i3.
    I'll revisit USB.

    I tweaked the configs of my Repetier Host printer, filament and slicer settings. I also plugged in the starter gcode... although I see two different places for it... not sure which is better. I'll experiment. I saved the imported STL model of Chase's fan shroud as gcode to the SD card and I'm printing that now as I type. I had to tweak the temps of the ABS. that's expected. That's also why I want USB control.
    It does look like I need to adjust flow rate control. I'll re-run an extruder estep test again.
     

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