Spare rear panel?

Discussion in 'Getting Started' started by orcinus, Aug 8, 2019.

  1. mhe

    mhe Well-Known Member

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    https://github.com/e3donline/Motion-System

    The panels are in the DXF folder, for laser and waterjetting, these should do. If you need to machine them, just import them into a sketch in Fusion, extrude them to the desired thickness and have at it.
     
    #101 mhe, Jan 20, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2020
  2. Omnimuller Inc.

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    Thanks alot, you just saved me an afternoon of playing with calipers and set squares
     
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  3. mhe

    mhe Well-Known Member

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    You're most welcome, that's what a community is for! :)
     
  4. Greg Holloway

    Greg Holloway Administrator
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    Has everyone that has seen cracking used thread-lock somewhere on their build? Is thre anyone who has had cracking that has not used thread-lock at all on any fixings?
     
  5. yngndrw

    yngndrw Well-Known Member

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    I used the "pritt stick" version of Loctite (248) on my build, but didn't get it anywhere near the acrylic. It was also set by the time I put the sides on, as I did that a day later. While I can't be absolutely certain that there's no cross-contamination of trace amounts from fingers etc, I'm pretty sure that there wasn't any.
     
  6. Greg Holloway

    Greg Holloway Administrator
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    did you use it on any of the M8 bolts and have you had cracking?
     
  7. yngndrw

    yngndrw Well-Known Member

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  8. Omnimuller Inc.

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    I don't think so, you guys bring it up quite a lot in the manual, even going as far as to remove already installed screws in later parts to thread-lock them. I used it everywhere in the motionsystem where the manual indicates to do so, i.e. all the m8 sxrews to fix the extrusions and the z axis to the top and baseplate, the mounting screws for the bed frame, and the rubber feed the system is resting on.

    As suggested by the build guide I didn't mount the side panels right away, and they stayed off for quite while, as I could only work on the system an hour a day at the most.

    So after applying the threadlock, it would have had about about a week to set before the sidepanels even came close to the build.
    Threadlock was applied to the screws in minute amounts using a toothpick. I used Nigrin Schrauben-Sicherung -mittelfest- (Art.-Nr. 74091)

    Curiously, the cracks in the sidepanels and the electronic panel showed up around the same time, which was after I started printing with the machine. The machine has not been moved from the spot that it has been assembled in, and the only times the frame had any other stresses on it besides its own weight was when it was turned on its sides etc during the build of the motion system itself. That cannot be the problem tough, as the sidepanels weren't mounted when the system was turned on its sides etc, and were only mounted after "completion" of the build. Now this might be coincidence, but I noticed the cracks only after I had started orinting on the system.

    Given this fact, I believe that there might possibly also be another factor at play here, because there are far to many people in this thread who knew about the issue and specifically paid attention not to get threadlocker near the acrylic, so I'm justing listing stuff about my setup now:

    I'm using black ABS and ABS-juice on a neoceram™ glass-surface on my heated bed.

    I don't think the Acetone in the ABS-juice has anything to do with it, as the cracks developed in the bottom corners of the Motion system, and evaporating Acetone fumes should rise upwards, as I only apply the juice to a preheated bed.

    I live in an appartment in a pretty new-ish building, built according to new insulation standards. Which means that the windows don't open, but there is active air circulation by some kind of ventilation system. I have no control over this system. However, I know that this thing has a night mode where the fans shut off completely, or go down to a much lower setting. Furthermore, we have floor heating instead of radiators. So the floor the Printer is sitting on is heated. I could imagine that the heating also has some form of night mode.
    What I'm saying is: I'm pretty sure the printer is going through thermal cycles every single day.

    However, since I have noticed the cracks forming, I have not printed anything on the system, and they have thus far not developed any further.

    The fastest move I personally used at any point were 50000 mm/min X/&Y moves, but I noticed the printer was lightly twitching when changing direction, so I dropped it down to 35000 mm/min.

    And I know the mass reduction is insignificant and shouldn't matter for this, but I'm not using the cover for the toolchanging head, because I haven't printed it yet.

    Now, I'm not saying it defintiely hasn't anything to do with the threadlock, for me it is still prime suspect.

    But at this point it would be interesting if a few people on the stock setup, including those who haven't had any issues with cracked panels, would describe their printing environment and their print settings/habits, perhaps we can find another common factor.
     
  9. Jason Chodakowski

    Jason Chodakowski Active Member

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    Yup, just-just happened to me. I saw the documentation about not using thread-lock on this part of the assembly, followed instructions. Frame has been together about four days, crack just developed in one corner this morning, both lower corners were stressed but fasteners were not very tight, maybe finger tight at best (the came loose easily) but there had been stress on the panel because it relaxed a bit. Limited at this time to lower left corner with some crazing on the lower right.
     
  10. Greg Holloway

    Greg Holloway Administrator
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    Has anyone had cracks in any positions other than the four courners of each panel?

    Has anyone not used threadlock anywhere and still have cracks?
     
  11. blarbles

    blarbles Well-Known Member

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    I received replacement panels after using threadlock. I installed the new panels and bought new bolts nuts and washers to ensure no threadlock residue was left.
    • The rear panel cover (keeps cables in but does not have electronics attached to it) the top left hole cracked along with the crack spreading to the triangle vent holes at the top.
    • The electronics panel has very small cracks in some of the holes where the motors were attached, but I have since I switched to a direct drive setup so removing the motors may have prevented further cracking.
    • Side panels are ok.
     
  12. Greg Holloway

    Greg Holloway Administrator
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    Can I have photos please?
     
  13. Greg Holloway

    Greg Holloway Administrator
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    We are now recommending that no Thread-Lock be used during the assembly of the motion system.
     
  14. yngndrw

    yngndrw Well-Known Member

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    I'm not convinced it is the Loctite. I've just noticed a few more cracks which don't start at the holes:
    20200124_113450-1134x2016.jpg 20200124_113406-2016x1134.jpg
     
  15. Jason Chodakowski

    Jason Chodakowski Active Member

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    I tend to agree. There's no locktite anywhere near where my cracks started. I think you can't tighten up any of the panel nuts until the machine is in it's final resting place. Moving it, adjusting it, anything that puts stress on these mount points will crack them, it's a near precision fit for a material that's not psyched about bearing the load quite like that. You have to leave it all relaxed until "the end".
     
  16. Omnimuller Inc.

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    If it really is the threadlock, what does that mean for systems that are already contaminated? No panels whatsoever? Or do we need to disassemble our systems completely and clean them? If so, how?

    Is there anyone who has experimented with delrin or polycarbonate panels? Are these stiff enough to do the job of the acrylic panels?
    Polycarbonate would be interesting because it is similar in both price and weight.

    What about other options? Aluminum would be a bit to heavy for my taste I think. Also it would be great if the alternative had a service temperature of at least 100°C
     
  17. blarbles

    blarbles Well-Known Member

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    Here you go Greg:

    2020-01-25 09.08.30.jpg 2020-01-25 09.09.58.jpg
     
  18. Greg Holloway

    Greg Holloway Administrator
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    We are doing tests and gatehring data. The threadlock doesn't have to come into contact with the acrylic for it to weaken the material, the fumes etc can cause issues too. Once cured it isn't a problem.

    Polycarbonate suffers from the same problem, as do most plastics of this nature.
     
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  19. Omnimuller Inc.

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    I don't know how far these fumes travel, but until you have all the data, I think it would be wise to also advise against the use of Threadlock in the assembly of the the tools for the time being, or at the very least, to let them cure for a while before installong them, as they are also parked pretty close to the electronics panel.

    Also, if these elements are so sensitive to fumes, I'd probably issue a warning against the use of ABS-Juice and the likes as a bed adhesive. I haven't printed on a glass bed in a while, so if I had tried printing ABS, this would have been my tried and true go-to solution.
     
  20. cj.matthes

    cj.matthes Member

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    @Greg Holloway my electronics panel started to crack in one corner. Haven't used any thread lock for the panels. I was also quite careful while tightening. The cracks didn't show up immediately. Noticed them at the end of the build after only moving it slightly.

    IMHO it's because you are using acrylic xt and not gs.
     

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