Switch to Volcano

Discussion in 'Calibration, Help, and Troubleshooting' started by Alex9779, Mar 15, 2016.

  1. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    I am thinking of how to make an easy switch to the Volcano on my machine and I have a question to that:

    How am I going to fit the heater cartridge? For the standard nozzle I had to bend the cables to the cartridge about 20mm away from the metal part of the cartridge. But the Volcano heater block the cartridge has to be fitted vertical. And right above only ~2mm away is the heatsink. So I would have to bend the cables just right above the metal part and straighten it where I bent them for the normal heater block. When I switch back the other way round. So how many times can I do this until the cables break away and I need a new heater cartridge and have to do the cabling again?

    I am really thinking of getting all the needed parts for a second x carriage assembly for the Volcano, redesigning all parts so that the things with cables which stay always there are fixed not to the top of the carriage but to the bottom. And to make connectors for all cables at the top of the spine so I can exchange them easily...
     
  2. R Design

    R Design Well-Known Member

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    Yikes.

    Haven't fitted the volcano yet and I'm really interested to know what you come up with.

    Sounds like we need a second heater cartridge, at the very least. But even that will require introducing a connector to make switching plug and play.

    Richrap has the volcano installed 24/7 : are there any pictures of his printer?
     
  3. R Design

    R Design Well-Known Member

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  4. R Design

    R Design Well-Known Member

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    Alternatively, since there's a 0.4mm volcano - unless one really wants to print something tiny with the 0.3mm standard - is there any reason to ever take the volcano block out?
     
  5. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    We have two heater blocks and E3D designed the Volcano for special reason. If we could/should use it for everything why don't they drop the normal one and make smaller "long" nozzles to do everything with the volcano?

    I think the reason is that because of the extended melting area, because of the longer nozzle and heater block, you have to keep up a certain flow or throughput of filament through the nozzle to be safe the filament does not degrade because it may be too long in a molten state.
    This might be ok for some generic filaments, where you can keep the filament at printing temperature for a quite long time until it degrades but there are others like all the filled filaments especially wood fills, which really degrade fast if kept to long over a certain temperature.

    So every heater for its purpose and that's why I wanna be able to switch the heaters...
     
  6. R Design

    R Design Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I think you're right about the flow rate: problem is if melt stays in there for "too long" then it starts in some sense to break down.

    The Volcano looks twice as long, so that's twice the internal volume: thence double the time spent at melt temperature for a given flow rate.

    The question is then at at what speeds / extrusion widths / layer heights do we get into the danger zone? That's a 3d graph!

    You must be right that some filaments "cook" more quickly.

    Also it's worth bearing in mind that I've never met anyone who is trying to print as slowly as possible! In any given situation the objective is usually to get the plastic out as fast as possible whilst maintaining quality. Logically we'll be trying to use our volcanos as much as possible, rather than to find excuses to revert to the V6.
     
  7. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    True but 3D printing is always to performa a balancing act between speed, quality and resolution.

    You want to get your print as fast as possible.
    But you want a certain quality depending on what the print is intended for.
    And you have to select your nozzle size depending on how detailed you need or want to have your print.

    I print very different things like engineering prototypes, parts for my RC helicopters and quadcopters, fun stuff for the kids, fun stuff for my wife (not what you are thinking!), decoration stuff, stuff for the household.

    Especially for my RC helicopters I printed very tiny parts which needed a smaller nozzle than 0.4mm. So the Volcano is out. Not that I always need that resolution but for my very very small helicopters I print the canopies in vase mode, single shell, and those parts have to be as light as possible. So I go for the 0.25mm.

    All I wanted to discuss here is that initially I was thinking not that it would be very easy, not that it would go in no time, but that a switch from V6 to Volcano and back is possible without too much hassle.

    But at the moment I think that this is not possible mainly or exclusively because to the heater cartridge.

    Or does someone have and idea how the heater cartridge cables could be fitted to match both extruder types?
    I have no idea at the moment other than going the way I already thought about to add connectors at least for the extruder stuff (heater, temp sensor, fan) so that I can release the extruder, unplug the connector and plug the other extruders in...
     
  8. Sarah Nicholson

    Sarah Nicholson Well-Known Member

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    I haven't received my BB yet (I'm a pre-orderer) but I also foresee needing to switch between the Volcano and V6 on a reasonably frequent basis, so my plan was to get a full Volcano kit (heatsink, heatbreak, extra PT100 and heater) and put connectors on all the components so I can just swap them over without all the hassle of disassembling the hotend. (I spend enough time doing that on my Vertex with its stupid hotend design which makes it impossible to separate the nozzle from the heater block and consequently the thermistor from the heater block since the nozzle blocks it in place... )

    I'm intending to use Molex Microfit connectors so I was pleased to find PT100s now come from E3D with them already fitted.

    Of course, this plan may not survive contact with the actual printer when it turns up...
     
    #8 Sarah Nicholson, Mar 17, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2016
  9. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    I was going for something more solid:
    737957_LB_00_FB.EPS.jpg 736639_LB_00_FB.EPS.jpg

    Not quite cheap, about 6-7€ per plug, I calculated I would need 4 connectors, that's 8 plugs, to connect everything, but to start only the hotend components would be enough...
     
  10. Henry feldman

    Henry feldman Well-Known Member

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    Are those as heavy as they look?
     
  11. R Design

    R Design Well-Known Member

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  12. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    I don't have them yet. But I didn't want to have the "floating" somewhere.
    Instead I want one side fitted in a part which replaces the top of the cable spine so it is fixed. I thought about using just a plug you build into cases but then the contacts are open and I gotta take care of isolating them.
    And then the other side coming from the print head screwed on it. So the weight doesn't really matter to me.
    I attached the specs PDF...

    As for the sensor I also thought about doing all the stuff only for the heater. Maybe that's my initial low-cost solution as I see no problem refitting the PT100 or the fan every switch...
     

    Attached Files:

  13. mike01hu

    mike01hu Well-Known Member

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    Richard Horne has been working on a quick change system but he has yet to publish his results. I have sketched something but without my BB I cannot see whether this will work. On my current printer I accommodate a relatively quick change cable-wise using D9 connectors and the hot-end is held by two screws.

    Mike
     
  14. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    I really wanna go for some tough connectors. I really like the ones I upped the specs. They are decent and are made for being plugged and unplugged often (more than 500 cycles).

    I think there are two possibilities to solve this:
    1. You have a Pro/Dual machine and wanna just change hotend(s) from V6 to Volcano and back.
    2. You have a Dual machine and wanna do 1. but also wanna change the X carriage to a Pro (single extruder) if you need the extended printing area.
    For the hotends there are also two options:
    1. It's ok for you to leave the fans and to leave the PT100s so you have to unclip the fan and remove the PT100 on every switch and fit them to the new hotend.
    2. You want a full featured solution.
    How many PINs in the connectors you need depend on what solution you want.
    1. (2.) + 1. You only need two PINs per hotend for the heater cartridge.
    1. (2.) + 2. You need 6 PINs per hotend (heater, sensor, fan).

    What I want is 2. + 2. So I have to make all the cables connectable.
     
  15. mike01hu

    mike01hu Well-Known Member

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    Alex, Richard has just said that he about to provide an update on his quick-change system that he has developed.
    Mike
     
  16. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    @mike01hu where? On TV? Radio? He on the telephone with you?
    Would be nice if you could include sources for what you saying...
     
  17. mike01hu

    mike01hu Well-Known Member

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    Sorry @Alex9779, you have to make allowances for us old folk who are not as adept as you younger guys at reading minds and translating it into digital output ;). Here is the thread that Richard shows his use of Volcano and hints at his progress on quick change hot ends.
     
  18. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    @mike01hu Cool thanks :) I saw that post on G+ but didn't read the comments until now.

    So I will still continue developing my solution I got in my mind. I am about to order the connectors, only about 60€ for them if I want the all inclusive solution with being able to switch to the Pro head too.

    Though at first I am going to implement the change of the hotends on the dual head because I really wanna check the Volcano out. For this I only need the missing parts to assemble the two Volcano heater blocks to full hotends with heaters, sensors and fans...
    For the Pro head you need a lot of parts like motor, end stop, fans, IR sensor if you want a complete replacement head... That's a lot of things to consider...
     
    mike01hu likes this.
  19. mike01hu

    mike01hu Well-Known Member

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    Most things are possible but you will need to redesign the head carriage to do what you want to do. It is easier to use two Volcanos and take a hit on max model height. The Volcano appears to work with smaller nozzles than the 0.8mm that most use and, if you use hardened nozzles, you can print with any filament. Check out Richard Horne mentioned above.
     
  20. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    You totally forget that you also loose 40mm build width when the dual carriage is fitted and you print with one hotend only and 80mm if you print with both hotends.
    So if you want to have a bigger print than 260 width with one nozzle you do have to swap to single extruder carriage.
    This is a factor at least for me...

    Maybe RichRap comes up with some genius design where you have the full width available when printing with multiple extruders. That would be cool...
     

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