The Hermes needs its own thread

Discussion in 'Tool heads & ToolChanger' started by Amr, Nov 4, 2019.

  1. Amr

    Amr Well-Known Member

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    Hey @Greg Holloway Its November are we getting any closer to the release of the Hermes Tool Head, I am getting tiered of the very hard to maintain/change filament/unclog/bowden quirks of the current tool head and would like to give the Hermes a try before trying other extruders like the nimble or the BMG.
    Having the spools inside the enclosure is killing my back, to be honest I started avoiding printing on the TC until I can change the bowden setup to direct drive.

    PS: not complaining just sharing my feelings.
     
  2. Andy Cohen

    Andy Cohen Well-Known Member

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    I suspect you're making a bit of an assumption that the Hermes will fix the issues we have with the tc. It may fix some but then otoh it may create new issues. The midsize stepper adds a lot of weight, which means you'll need to go even slower then 40mm/sec.
     
  3. mhe

    mhe Well-Known Member

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    Mass creates an acceleration issue, not a speed issue. If your accelerations are dialled in well, the mass will matter a lot less than you might think. Also, the TC is mechanically a lot more sturdy than let's say a BigBox. And even my previous IDEX BigBox was doing quite well at 60ish mm/s with Titan Aeros. And that motion system was nowhere near as good.
     
  4. Amr

    Amr Well-Known Member

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    Well with the current setup i get good quality if I slow the printer down to say 30-40 mm/s, I I can get it to print at 60 or maybe 80 mm/s with good quality I will take it, besides this will not be the first printer that I have to have a heavy hotend, and the fact that I am not as experienced with Bowden adds salt to injury and makes it realy hard for me to tune this as fast as I would like.
     
  5. mhe

    mhe Well-Known Member

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    Tune your acceleration parameters, not only speed. If you drive a car in a race towards a corner, you don't drive on a long straight slower, you just start braking earlier before reaching said corner. Getting the bowden stuff dialled in well is a thing in itself (especially Pressure Advance), but those two in combination should help quite a bit. Overall I believe, the Hermes will be a lot easier to deal with eventually.
     
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  6. Amr

    Amr Well-Known Member

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    That is my expectation.

    How ever my gripe now is that managing the TC with the titans all the way in the back loading filament is hell, with the addition that the titans are starting to click now, as well when loading filament I find my self having to remove the bowden tube from the titan to the tool as the clip that hold the bowden in stops the filament in its track, in general the location and workflow of the titans is not optimal to my workflow (I have the Tool changer on the bottom shelf of my workbench that makes it even harder to deal with.).
     
  7. mhe

    mhe Well-Known Member

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    Well that is a very particular situation you're dealing with, my TC sits on an Ikea Alex, about waist high, changing filament is tedious but mainly because the Bowden tubes are so long. Why not put it up a shelf floor?

    Given how much I have to be away from home for work these days, I haven't had the time to exhaust all the options of fine tuning the Bowden, but why waste time if you have little of it, I'll just drop the Hermes in there and it should be a lot easier. In the end time is money, especially if you want to manufacture parts as a small business on the side.
     
  8. Andy Cohen

    Andy Cohen Well-Known Member

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    Sorry I do not agree. It's both acceleration and speed. Acceleration is a function of the toolpath. If you rely on acceleration too much you rarely get up to full speed... You will only go your full speed for long straight toolpath runs. The old Raise3D N2 design used 2 full sized nema 17s with a huge block of aluminum and an UM motion system. It could not go over 40mm/sec without significant ringing. The Bondtech upgrade removed 2/3s the stepper laminates and traded the aluminum block for nylon which made it possible to go 60mm/s. CoreXY DOES do a great job with handling mass but there's only so much you can control. IMO a lot of the slop I see is not from the motion control system, it's from the tool to carriage interface. Yeah, you can up the acceleration to minimize the impact, but that also slows it down.
    While I am happy to see how close the drive gear is to the hotend with the Hermes, the need for the mid-sized stepper leaves me disappointed. It tells me they needed the larger number of laminates to get torque.
     
    #8 Andy Cohen, Nov 5, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2019
  9. Andy Cohen

    Andy Cohen Well-Known Member

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    As a one time owner of a successful 3d Printing service... IMO... I would NEVER have my biz rely on a machine which is meant as a test platform.

    EVERYTHING in the TC task flow is complicated! It DOES take a long time to swap out all four tool's materials. It is crazy complicated to get all the settings correct in the slicer SW. There is a lot to know and learn; from the Duet awesomeness to the ways to purge/wipe. and it really HAS to be on a surface which is at the correct level. The hotend IMO should be at eye level. If you have it lower then IMO it's on you not on E3D.
    It is what it is... for now. and... as such... it is a TONOFUN!!! The most fun I've had in a long time.

    BTW... one thing I learned about the Titans, Cut the tip of the filament flat with no angle. Unlike other feeders the Titan does not seem to like the tip cut at a diagonal. Feed the filament into the titan using the Duet extrusion control so that the Titan's gear controls the tip position. That might help. and... put the thing on a proper platform! Harbor Freight sells a tool chest that's perfect in just about every way... except it costs $300, but then again you just spent around $3600.
     
    #9 Andy Cohen, Nov 6, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2019
  10. Amr

    Amr Well-Known Member

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    For Me it is a hobby not a business so we are on the same page.

    It is a ton of fun for sure, and I knew buying into it that this is not your plug and play printer, what I am trying to achieve is share my experience and thoughts to enhance the testing platform and elevate it to be a useful tool. My point of view of a tool should conform with my work flow not the other way around, as for the location of the printer IMO having the printer elevated especially a heavy printer like the TC would increase vibrations having it closer to the ground makes it more stable, but disregarding that opinion I built the work bench my self, and rebuilt it again when I put the order for the TC to have a home for it there.


    I don't live in the USA so I don't have access to a Harbor freight but as I said I built my own work bench. as for filament loading I will try that.
     
  11. mhe

    mhe Well-Known Member

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    Sure, acceleration and speed are connected, but lowering speed only just to get rid of ringing is also not always the correct way. Ofc slower accelerations will only allow you to reach the commanded speed on longer straight lines, that is kind of the point. So in the end, the mm/s value itself even misleading as it gives no information about acceleration and jerk used. What gets the rubber on the road in the end is the time a defined print needs to finish. There are many ways to skin a cat.

    In terms of Hermes, yes, Sanjay stated that they could have gone with a lighter motor to save weight and still have enough torque to get the filament through, why they chose not to, I have no idea. Probably there will be a lighter Hermes Aero at some point, who knows.
     
  12. Greg Holloway

    Greg Holloway Administrator
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    Just as an FYI it is unlikely that the hermes tool will be ready for the launch of Hermes. However after Formnext at the end of the month the Hermes tool will be my primary focus.

    As a side note to parts of this thread, the Hermes tool is about twice the weight of the Bowden tool at ~465g. That is still technically within our recommended specification for default settings. Given that I don't have finished hermes tools I'll have to see how things go.
     

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