-THE LIST -

Discussion in 'Calibration, Help, and Troubleshooting' started by EpicFail, May 8, 2016.

  1. EpicFail

    EpicFail Active Member

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    Trying not to break this beautiful new thing, but I am having serious issues with it on multiple areas.


    #1 - Lost In Translation- extruder switches direction when forcing extrude.

    #2 - Double Trouble - dual printing wile on extruder 1 seems to cause extruder 0 to start reversing so it no longer pushes plastic out (intermitent)

    #3 - BEEP BEEP - Pressing to change Flow or Bed often causes a double-beep and a new setting to be in the change field, and un exitable till the interface times out and I can try again (even when attempting to carefully make sure theres no Click or half click to cause it to roll to a new option)

    #4 - PLA + PVA = WTF? Dual Printing PVA+PLA setting does not seem to function well(or at all). Nothing sticks to anything else.( PVA to PLA, PVA to Glass, PLA to GLASS, what ?)

    #5 - The Big Box has lots of fans, LOTS OF FANS. Fan Speed Default is RIDICULOUS. Ive had to tune the fans down or OFF to get anything to stick, or to keep the fans from over cooling the heater block causing a shutdown. Wile using the suggested printing defaults from the supplied Simplify 3d slicer, I would expect more.. predictable , WORKING, results.

    #6 - BANGARANG - Slamming the Walls -Going from auto homed position, to the filament dump tray, often the printer will go to the middle of the bed, and start slamming into the wall till the script ends.
    (This is using the profiles supplied for Simplify 3d)

    #7 - FEED ME, SEYMOUR! - Constantly having to manually re feed plastic. I've wasted chunks of my filament rolls pulling the filament out, cutting the tip and shoving it back in for what seems to be no reason at all, the plastic isnt swelled, its just jammed itself up and the gears have completely stripped it of any mass.

    #8 - I'm Not Touching You, I'm Not Touching You, I'm Not... wait.. I Am! - Basically, Letting this thing run on its own is unreliable when it Auto Homes - In one case ( the one I saw specifically) if the z sensor is blocked by plastic it's picked up on its own from curling and other bad print results, it seems to ignore that its already setting itself off as it parks to home, AND CONTINUES TRYING TO MOVE THE Z TILL SOMETHING GIVES. I've had to flip the power switch many times now to prevent this from happening. I have come so close to breaking the glass in just a couple days of printing Cubes.

    #9 - Im Gonna Pretend I Didnt See That
    - If the printer is set to print slowly before it starts printing, it seems to ignore the reduction % until its manually readjusted, and in between head swaps it may or may not decide to go right back to full speed.

    Is there, a different file repository for updated parts, firmware, anything, to get this thing running as its shown in the videos we saw all during the kickstarter?

    After days of putting this together, waiting over a week for missing parts, and then calibrating over, and over, and over, and over, and over, It feels like this should have been DONE with by now.

    I don't think E3d was being disingenuous with their marketing of the product, but something here seems... Borked.

    Any assistance at this point is appreciated.

    In the meantime, I'll return to scowering the forums.
     
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  2. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    Ok this is a tough one...

    What you mean with this? When does it switch? How do you force extrusion?

    When exactly does this happen? On a dual print? On start of a print?

    Seems like a firmware bug, Marlin RC3 had a lot of those strange menu issues...

    PVA is not easy I think, didn't try myself yet, have a spool on order... Did you try bed coatings to help adhesion? Glue stick is the easiest and cheapest and could help a lot... For PLA to PVA I have no idea if this works well...

    Which fans do you mean? The print cooling fans? ou are supposed to set their speed according to your print... The other fans are always on if the hotends are above 40° C, the case fans are always on...

    I described this in various posts already, the supplied profiles (from the file server or from the forums here) are not failsafe! You gotta take care of nearly everything to get it right because the scripts are dependent on preparation on the LCD and not resetting the box to the same state after a print under certain circumstances. Also if you cancelled a print the printer is in an undefined state depending on how you cancelled (LCD or print host)and if a script is executed on the host upon cancelling.

    Sound like your filament tension is too high. Did you check that your idlers are working properly? Here is a description how it should work...

    Well if the sensor is blocked how should the machine know that the bed is up or touching something? It is the only end stop... There no backup... If the sensor does not detect the board from any reason then the bed is crashed into the nozzles...

    This is not described clearly... It "prints slowly before it starts printing"???

    Remember the dual kit a has been and is still called "EXPERIMENTAL".
    IMHO this covers everything from building it, calibrating it and printing with it.

    Marlin RC3 is not the best, it has several bugs and the problems you described in #1 and #2 could come from a bug too.

    I can recommend my firmware compilations, I made von with RC6 for the V1.0 dual version too, get from here.

    But still if you have the not so buggy firmware, actually the RC6 is pretty good now, the menus act like they should, extruders extruding the right direction and some other nice changes, the S3D profiles are still just a start.

    Greg told that they just started with a generic dual profile and hacked the ooze prevention script in. There are no optimizations regarding start script or end script, there are not real settings set for material or material combinations, that's is all up to you!

    I recommend the use of the profile I created here, there are other profiles posted in the forum from other people.
    But again, the dual is experimental! It is not "Build 'n Print".

    So I have to say that the Pro isn't either as the profiles for the slicers, especially the scripts could be improved and there could be more documentation for scripts if you connect or cancel prints from host.

    This is all in the works by various people but we all do this in our free time and the community is building, it is not stable. There are things here and there, guides, firmwares, helpful posts and still there is no management setup to streamline those efforts. Useful guides are not made sticky, Wiki is growing very slowly, no content yet other than the build manual extended with some useful and some not so useful information.
     
  3. Dr Jeep

    Dr Jeep Well-Known Member

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    Personally I put the autohome G28 in my slicer start code, I kept forgetting to do it when it was a manual step and got fed up with the head crashes as a result, I guess there are scenarios where that isn't correct or it'd have been a sensible default in the S3D profile, but it works for me (caveat I am on a pro not a dual at the moment and I am confused to the difference in terms of homing).

    Not really had problems with the default fan speeds in the S3D profile...If the fan is cooling the heater block then you need to either lower it (mine is the same height relative to the nozzle as the IR sensor so about 2mm of the bed when homed) or tune your PID's. if it's lifting prints on stuff with a decent surface area in contact with the base like benchy then it may be your adhesion is just on the limit for other reasons (bad bed height, grease on the glass etc)

    Personally I'd stay away from dual printing until you have single printing on PLA fully debugged, otherwise you are just amplifying problems.

    I am confused by the sensor being blocked, when you autohome you haven't extruded anything yet, so where is this plastic coming from, the previous print ? You really need to clear all debris from the previous prints from the bed and nozzle before starting a new job (if you think that's annoying wait until a shard of wrong colour plastic gets in-bedded in your print when it falls in to the build halfway through) Once your prints are more successful there should be hardly any cleanup to do.

    The firmware build on the rumba as shipped is quite old, even if you don't use Alex's builds....at the very least update to the latest "official" bigbox build, that on it's own solves a lot of the menu problems and for me resolved the reverse extruding issue. Feel free to experiment a bit with firmware versions, it's very safe update process which make it near impossible to brick the controller, downgrades etc are all possible so there is little to no risk in trying other builds.
     
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  4. EpicFail

    EpicFail Active Member

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    Alex-
    Through the LCD interface, setting it to "move axis" on the extruder .

    When printing a dual extrusion model, if it switches to printing with extruder 1, extruder 0 seems to start backing up ever slowly to the point it no longer has enough material to extrude with on the next pass. Maybe if the model was very large it might have time to force more plastic down the tube, but in this case its just moving back too far for something basically a couple cm wide. And considering how much plastic i've had to hand push back down to get a layer going again, it seems to be far in excess of what the initial retraction move asks for, or, in the case of turning off retraction, it still happens.

    This being a known issue... I assume E3D has a custom update somewhere?

    Thats what I thought when I saw they had a setting for PLA + PVA included in their printing profile! I finally got it to stick the PVA to blue painters tape, But the PVA and PLA do not seem to want to stick to each-other with any reliability.

    Ah yeah. Clearly I don't mean the case fans but the side fans. And again, I'm working with the integrated print profiles supplied for my BBDual, I would expect the BB team used the same exact print profiles as well without needing much if any modification from their presets.. The easiest way I've found to positioning the outer most fans is to use a thin couple layers of already printed plastic , place it underneath them wile the print head is in place for a first layer print, and pushing them down atop the plastic bit so they would basically skirt just above any plastic that comes out the nozzle (similar to setting the z sensor with a bit of belt underneath). Its worked great so far, but on occasion somehow STILL managed to kill the printer by over-cooling the block. I was thoroughly surprised. Granted I've just made attempts to catch the fan and turn it down or off, or cover part of the fan shroud to limit intake, bust still, these issues arise wile using supplied settings. Just attempting not to deviate too far from what I was given to run the printer with.

    I've now seen mention of a file server but did not see an associated link in either post. As for running the printer, aside from storing bed leveling settings... Auto-home > Print before each print seems like a pretty straight forward task... At this point I would not expect to need extra steps in the LCD when everything else should be covered by the printer profile and slicer settings supplied for Simplify3d specificly for the materials and printer I use... SOME adjustment early on wile testing, sure, but not EVERY time.

    Yeah dealing with that a bit. I'm used to Adding pressure, not, using the bolt to remove it. Seems fine on the right extruder with absolutely no modification though?

    This is still very confusing indeed. The sensor block had plastic on it, it was clearly setting the sensor off because the red indicator light was on.... and yet it kept trying to move the Z. Under the current logic I would have expected it to just assume it's already at zero. Then again, this has also happened with no visible coverage of plastic either? So i'm not entirely sure what's going on. I can only attest specifically to the 1 case of many in which I found plastic setting off the sensor block, in the other cases it continued down the Z I had not observed the sensor block, but they did return to "working" conditions once powered off and re homed. Confusing.

    Procedure - wile printing one model test, I set the LCD to drop print speed to 20%, the print starts failing , i cancel print, clean up, reset. auto home, etc, start new print, LCD still reads 20% speed, im fine with that, I figure slow printing again at the start may help, New print running seems to ignore this till I move the knob to adjust print speed.

    In actuality and not opinion, The main difference between either is the addition of a print head. I would still expect everything to at least work straight forward, especially since dual print-heads is not new, and is shown to work quite well in their own images. I can now however experiment with various types of materials now thanks to having said dual print heads. Like fusing PLA with WoodLay or other infused PLA products.

    To which ...I now have to ask, why was it not set up with V6?

    Thanks! though in order to test safely I probably need an actual copy of E3D's version in case anything goes wrong and I have to revert.

    ... well that is unsettling news.

    Thank you Again!

    Still... VERY Unsettling.

    I guess thats why I love the general maker/printer communities. Someone is always working on ways to improve problems. Though some of the problems being faced seem like the same problem in a new package, but there's always someone who wants to fix an issue, come up with a new idea, and share.

    And , I have to say, doing a single print, and only having to calibrate maybe twice to get a benchy off the platform , was wonderful.

    Don't get me wrong, I have complaints, but I still think this can be a fantastic machine. I am just frustrated with seeing problems after building my now... 4th 3d printer? And... none of these issues seemed to be apparent when going through the kickstarter process.

    I still think E3D did a wonderfull job on getting the hardware designed and built; Room for hands with the electronics and tiny insert screws would have been nice.. Maybe a beefier printerboard; but regardless, they did a great job fixing their issues with their sourced manufacturers and addressing shipping damage issues and replacing unshipped bits to people who needed them, FOR FREE. But these difficulties and bugs were unexpected.

    Maybe I missed a post somewhere.

    Thank you Alex
     
  5. Alex9779

    Alex9779 Moderator
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    Ok I stay away from replying to your post again :D but I want to comment.

    All you wrote at the beginning sounds to me like Marlin bugs...

    Yes you're right there are material profiles in the auto configure of the profiles E3D published, with the file server I meant the location they published to backers before file have been up on the Wiki, maybe you got the profiles from there...
    But again, and no offense @Greg Holloway, bare with me, I really think you did a great job with the BigBox and the design, but I think you should have put a bit more efforts in the profile, maybe just throw out all the stuff you didn't setup, which just has been there in the generic profile you got from the S3D team so you don't confuse people.
    I remember I had issues with the profile too at first when switching to only one extruder, the setting was still there but the scripts were not updated properly nor the other dual related settings so that point just didn't work as intended. So just remove it, noon will try to use it, no issues occur, no posts are written, no support has to be done...
    To help someone to do something if he has questions is much more easier than trying to find a reason for a behavior someone has on his machine. You gotta ask all the question "which profile, what did you do before, what are you trying, what is really happening".

    And a little more feedback for the firmware would be great, still there is only RC3 officially released for the V1.0, RC6 only exists officially for the V1.1.
    Greg referred my firmwares, which I call unofficial, but you can believe me, I reviewed all the settings thoroughly, mostly based on what E3D did just a little tweaked here and there, no change to Marlin itself. All you really set, apart from other small behavioral settings, is which sensors the box uses for temperatures, how many hotends you have, what are the movement limits and what special features you wanna use. That's all. If I would have done a setting wrong the firmware would have not compiled or you would notice the error right upon the first start because you would have a MAXTEMP error or MINTEMP or something else...

    I print with the RCBugFix release successfully. Though I only have that up for my specific setup.

    If you do not wanna use my profile, just have a look at the scripts for start and end I published because they are much more failsafe because everything is done at start, it homes with the correct head, the scripts do every maintenance move with tool 0 so no matter the offset is correct I will not crash...
     
  6. EpicFail

    EpicFail Active Member

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    Of course, when I got to plug in the Rumba with the USB.. my PC doesn't recognize it as a usable device. ...
     
  7. Rob Heinzonly

    Rob Heinzonly Well-Known Member

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    Did you install the USB drivers for the Rumba board ?
     
  8. EpicFail

    EpicFail Active Member

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    NOPE! They are not where I can find them on the wiki. And the ones I have found outside the site I'm not sure I can trust installing.
     
  9. Rob Heinzonly

    Rob Heinzonly Well-Known Member

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  10. EpicFail

    EpicFail Active Member

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    Yeeeeah thats the one alright.

    Says its installed, but its nowhere to be found when trying to actually update the driver through device manager. Wonderful.
     
  11. EpicFail

    EpicFail Active Member

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    Anyone got tips for when the board shows up as " Unknown Device" and doesn't allow you to assign a driver to it?
     
  12. Miasmictruth

    Miasmictruth Well-Known Member

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    Try restarting the PC and the Rumba leave the USB cable unplugged until both are booted up, then try again. Do you have S3D Open? If so close it.
     
  13. mike01hu

    mike01hu Well-Known Member

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    My problem turned out to be cables. All those I had were power only and no data!!!
     
  14. EpicFail

    EpicFail Active Member

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    Unfortunately they were both new data cables.
     
  15. EpicFail

    EpicFail Active Member

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    I might add, I'm running Windows 7 X64 version. Still cant direct the unknown device to install the drivers.
     
  16. Miasmictruth

    Miasmictruth Well-Known Member

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    I run the same so it's not the operating system :/
     
  17. EpicFail

    EpicFail Active Member

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    GOT IT! YAHOO!. It was the interior USB cable to the case. I just plugged in directly from my PC to the board, with a mini usb and it worked.

    Now where the heck am I gonna get another one of these interior cables?
     
  18. EpicFail

    EpicFail Active Member

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    Sugestions on getting the Rumba to go into DFU programming mode? .. following the instructions on the wiki, it blips the txrx light once, then goes back to the marlin interface.
     
  19. R Design

    R Design Well-Known Member

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    As I recall there are very few signs that the Rumba is programming. And it takes a while. (There's a largely immobile and mostly stuck at 100% progress bar in the Arduino environment.)

    Then you discover you're running the new version!
     
  20. EpicFail

    EpicFail Active Member

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    Its not even that far, im pulling the jumper, it blips once, and doesnt continue flashing, indicating im not in programming mode
     

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