Time to build my BigBox!

Discussion in 'Build Help' started by MyMakibox, Oct 23, 2017.

  1. MyMakibox

    MyMakibox Member

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    I have had the packages from E3D arrive, sit unopened, and relocated with me while I moved country twice. Finally I have the time to build it. I'm a bit overwhelmed by the material online.

    So, given the amount of collective wisdom that much have emerged, I want to ask for suggestions about how I should do the assembly -- are there any upgrades or modifications that are worth adding for the initial build? What requires extra care to prevent problems down the line?
     
  2. Old_Tafr

    Old_Tafr Well-Known Member

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    The very first thing (I) would do is get all the tools needed and plastic boxes and trays for all the parts. And possibly lable all the boxes.

    Then check you have all the parts; I remember there being one or two lists with pictures.

    Similarly for tools, make sure you have things like the insulated screwdriver for adjusting the voltage on the Rumba stepper drivers.

    Getting the right Allen keys is vital, I have a screwdriver like handle with replaceable bits which is ideal, plus long Allen keys with ball ends (vital for the original X-Carriage and fitting the heat sinks) Don't go this extruder route. Go Titan from the start !

    Decide on your own policy with the little clamps that hold the frame together. This is a MUST !!! Either glue the nuts in place or use a little wood wedge when installing.

    Don't remove the base with the SD card in the Pi, the SD card will SNAP OFF

    Follow the policy of leaving things loose when you build, if it says DON'T TIGHTEN then don't :) As there is a specific route to tightening when commissioning, if you don't follow this things don't get aligned properly.

    Find one of the ways to move the Z height infra-red sensor from the X-Carriage somewhere else, it gets in the way when working on the extruders,.

    Make sure ALL the electrical devices on the X-Carriage have connectors so you can easily remove the fans (both) the thermistor and the heater (heater due soon with a connector) as otherwise removing the heat sink with with things attached by wires that run all the way to the base means the risk of snapping or damaging them.......... a real PAIN to then fix them.

    If you are using a Pi in the base, consider moving it (need a special lead)

    There are a million mods on this forum, take quite a while to evaluate which you want to do.

    Read through the WiKi on the build as there are various forks quite often without a link at the end back to where you were.

    Most people would dispense with the Rumba and go Duet but this is a lot of extra costs, but it does eliminate most of the mods to make the motors quieter and things like dampers for the Y motor.

    There are a mass of different (semi-official) "models" spend time sorting which you are building and then back to the route through the build WiKi.

    ---------------

    Get a "Lazy Susan" to mount it on, makes like so much easier being able to just turn the printer round. In this respect WiFi connectivity is perhaps easier as one less cable to contend with, just mains power.

    Get plenty of lights LED are ideal battery powered as there are any number of awkward corners to get in when assembling/disassembling and being a box it's full of shadows.
     
    #2 Old_Tafr, Oct 23, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2017
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  3. MyMakibox

    MyMakibox Member

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    This is extremely helpful. Thank you so much Old_Tafr!
     
  4. Old_Tafr

    Old_Tafr Well-Known Member

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    Info on what the different models/variations/types of BB there are is found here...

    https://wiki.e3d-online.com/wiki/BigBox_Build_Manual

    "E3D supported versions

    BigBox Pro
    BigBox Dual
    BigBox Pro Hybrid Titan
    BigBox Dual Hybrid Titan
    Derived versions

    BigBox Pro Hybrid
    BigBox Dual Hybrid
    Special (community built) versions

    BigBox Dual Hybrid Titan Mirrored
    Remarks

    Kickstarter upgrade to Hybrid/V1.1"

    The "Overview" link leading you here...

    https://wiki.e3d-online.com/wiki/BigBox_Version_Overview

    It is worth reading all this and particularly seeing if you understand the difference between all the different versions. This will influence the route you take through the build WiKi, and specifically if you don't have another printer to make parts it will be a guide to what parts you need to order to complete your printer.
     
  5. Hans C.

    Hans C. Well-Known Member

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    Excellent advice from Old_Tafr. I'll add my 2ยข worth: if it has an acrylic frame, be especially careful not to overtighten the fasteners. And as far as I'm concerned, ball-end hex drivers (I bought a Bondhus set with screwdriver handles; they were perfect) are an absolute necessity, not a luxury.
     
  6. Old_Tafr

    Old_Tafr Well-Known Member

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    And................... PID tuning. Makes sure that temp is reached without too much overshoot and settles down rather than oscillating above and below the set temp.

    As I did you may find that your first print, the "benchy" worked fine, even though the next print ended up with "Thermal runaway" (wrong term) this is due to a lower! temperature more likely than a higher, often when the print cooling fan is either on too soon or too much (lots of settings i.e. for each and every layer, in Simplify3D) but also due to the wrong height setting so the print cooling fan flows on the nozzle, temp drops and failure occurs (also note that the reset button on the control panel is hidden, take off the front (panel below control panel top) to get access or drill a hole or print a new top for the control panel (make a note of totally different drill bit profile needed for drilling acrylic)

    So.......... make sure print cooling fan is set correct just above height of nozzle after moving it up out of the way to do the Z height calibration.

    Back to PID. Lots of posts on this to do via Octoprint (can't do it from the front panel, certainly from the original firmware) this is not absolutely essential but very useful to keep the nozzle temp steady. You will find that the parameters you get are quite different than the defaults. You must not have a drafty environment as the nozzle temp is cycled several times (you can set how many times) and if it is cooled from an external source your calibration will either fail or just be plain wrong.

    Don't forget to save the PID calibration at the end of the process.

    One post on PID tuning...

    https://forum.e3d-online.com/index.php?threads/pid-tuning.731/page-2

    See answer #29 for the whole procedure which you can do from Octoprint. It is worth reading the who post for some general background.

    ------------

    Also support the heated bed in the middle to stop the glass and heated bed sagging slightly, some posts on this too.
     
    #6 Old_Tafr, Nov 1, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2017
  7. Ephemeris

    Ephemeris Well-Known Member

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    Any progress? Pictures? Feel free to share obsessively!
     
  8. Old_Tafr

    Old_Tafr Well-Known Member

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    Yes, ask questions! the forum was full of questions when we were all waiting/building/sorting with a mass of useful info.

    I have been glueing nuts in the nut traps I have left and found a good way was to apply a little of the paste like super glue on the nut and then pull it into the cut-out with a set screw to hold it accurately in place. I always had the feeling that just glued in the nuts could pull sideways slightly when tightened and break the bond so holding in with the set screw solves this.

    I will post a picture of the tiny wedges I used to hold the nut trap firmly in place making it easy to insert the screw and tighten. This is a fiddly process and irritating to keep dropping the nut trap, sometimes inside the base where it is not so easy to retrieve.
     
    #8 Old_Tafr, Nov 14, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017
  9. MyMakibox

    MyMakibox Member

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    Thanks for asking!


    Preparations

    I had a couple of surprises with the kit. I was one of the early Kickstarter backers, but was very slow getting in my answers to them on case colour etc.. so the good part was that I received a V1.1 Hybrid! The mixed news was that instead of the perspex frame I expected, I got a wooden one.

    So I decided to paint it. Which led to me reading up on painted Ultimaker originals (also made of plywood), visiting specialist arty paint shops, and ultimately ending up with this look..

    WhatsApp Image 2017-11-15 at 3.39.58 PM.jpeg

    I'm really happy with the interior, not so much with the exterior. I've varnished the wooden parts of the bed.

    I consider sanding down the exterior and trying again, but ultimately decided to push on to assembly. Maybe I'll repaint the exterior another time.


    My Bigbox is a V1.1, and I have bought upgrades to the new z-axis lead-screw motors and silent steppers. I'm curious about whether it is worth going to Titan as well. Is there anything wrong with the earlier model?

    I don't have a working printer at the moment, so held off on the Titan and all other upgrades that required prints.



    The assembly so far

    It's been a mixed experience!

    The first step was to get my wife involved to superglue the nut traps. We did that while chatting, and it has proved to be time well spent.

    I should mention that my main point of reference is the Makibox. You can read about my experiences here: http://mymakibox.blogspot.com/

    Compared to the Makibox, the Bigbox is miles ahead in terms of component quality.



    Building the first few components, I was very impressed. The printed parts are beautiful, and the way they combine mechanical, cork, metal and so forth is great.

    I should mention that my main point of reference is the Makibox. You can read about my experiences here: http://mymakibox.blogspot.com/ It was a notoriously terrible printer and crowd-funding project, and the challenge for most was to get it working at all.

    Compared to the Makibox, the BigBox components scream quality and care. Pieces fit together without requiring force or sandpaper.

    After a great start, I started to get confused in ways which will be familiar. The idler arm of the extruder didn't seem to have a bearing in the instructions. The codes of the stepper drivers on the diagrams didn't match the ones supplied. There are a few times when I felt a tricky step could have been done much more easily at an earlier stage of assembly. The text gets sparser and sparser, and the photos get less clear. So the instructions feel a tad uneven. Maybe I'm the last one to do an assembly, so it hardly seems worth making suggestions.

    (More to come - here's the state of play)

    BigBox Status.jpg
     
    #9 MyMakibox, Nov 17, 2017 at 2:05 PM
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2017 at 4:51 AM
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  10. jfb

    jfb Well-Known Member

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    Looks pretty good so far :)

    To answer your question about extruders....
    There is nothing at all wrong with the original extruders, other that that I found loading filament to be annoyingly difficult, and getting the two print heads actually level was (for me) virtually impossible. That could just be me being a bit crap though :D In your position, I'd go with what you have already and get it working (not too hard, to be honest) then decide what other upgrades or changes you'd like to go for.

    My own bigbox has been waiting for me to finish putting it back together with Titans for a while (I'm going for the dual titan idex, but lack time to play), but I certainly did a lot of printing with the original parts - they work just fine, and I've had some great prints out of it.

    Have fun with the build :)
     
  11. Old_Tafr

    Old_Tafr Well-Known Member

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    I never did find out what "hybrid" meant other than this was the 1.1 when I have as far as I know the 1.0 I think the Kickstarter pages have the info, I have just lost the link for now.

    As with the 1.0 the 1.1 I assume has the same X-Carriage so it's large, heavy and a pain to work on the extruders if for any reason you get filament that doesn't extrude etc. Having connectors on the fans, heater and thermistor help enormously here so they don't have to be left dangling. My crimp tool has arrived so next time I have to take the whole thing apart then all but the heater will have connectors, if you can get that done prior to assembly, and as mentioned there is a new kit of parts that has a heater with a connector and it will be available as a separate item soon.

    Apart from the pain of disassembly and levelling two nozzles (do that many people use both? I don't ) the X-Carriage assembly with its two heavy stepper motors has simply more weight = inertia, so takes more effort to move and stop = slower prints. I think Titan have lighter motors too and a later change was for an even lighter motor.

    I remembered an assembly trick I thought would never work. If you have say a smooth rod that needs to fit in a printed part and you really don't think it will fit without a lot of effort then find a drill bit a fraction larger than the hole (possibly equals the actual size the hole should be) and rotate it manually! anti-clockwise into the hole ! Sounds crazy, but if you rotate it clockwise so it cuts, (even by hand) it will grab and ruin the hole. Run manually anti-clockwise in and out it works like a dream.

    The steppers and the tiny print are a pain to identify, but things like the two Z motors are the same may help identify them.

    Follow the instructions to the letter, they certainly were correct for the 1.0, the most tedious part I found was that some photos are a close up, so it can be difficult to identify where on the printer the instructions refer.

    Occasionally some support material is left in the printed parts usually looks like a concertina and can be removed, mine had some on the X-Carriage parts where the toothed belt was to fit. Can be totally confusing until you realise that this material should be removed.

    Did the Y motor come with a vibration damper? This was an add-on later but may have been supplied with the kit. Numerous posts suggest this dampens down the noise of the motor and back panel vibrating during printing.

    Did you get a big Lazy Susan bearing to mount the whole thing on? Buy a big bearing not a complete Lazy Susan as this may have a small bearing under a large lump of wood. You need a large bearing to prevent wobble. If you have restricted space for the printer, being able to rotate the printer around is an absolute god-send. This is the one I bought, not cheap but worth it.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Unilocks-A...1500036692&sr=8-8&keywords=lazy+susan+bearing

    The beep from the control panel is tediously loud. Some people load a fix with their firmware upgrade changing volume and frequency, but simply unsoldering the beeper from the circuit board works just fine.
     
  12. MyMakibox

    MyMakibox Member

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    So here's a build question:

    I bought the new z-axis stepper motors with integrated lead-screws, and the anti-backlash nuts

    Which gives me three options for attaching the bed assembly:

    Use the elegant brass nuts that came with the kit (they seem to fit)
    Use the POM nuts that came with the integrated lead-screws
    Use the anti-backlash nuts (not sure if I can do this without the printed part)
    https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2189819

    Suggestions?
     
    #12 MyMakibox, Nov 19, 2017 at 2:08 AM
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2017 at 4:50 AM
  13. Ephemeris

    Ephemeris Well-Known Member

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    If the leadscrews are stainless steel, I'd go with POM/Delrin nuts and run them dry with no lubricant. Just make sure the leadscrews are really clean, before you switch to the POM nuts

    I'm skeptical of antibacklash for a Z screw. Gravity is our friend and if you trammed everything correctly, there should be essentially no backlash at the screw/nut interface, and antibacklash nuts accelerate wear on the nuts.
     
  14. MyMakibox

    MyMakibox Member

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    A little more assembly has been done, a "lazy susan" undercarriage has been obtained, and POM nuts support the bed. I need to do wiring and commissioning.

    ..and then there's this left over. What is it? I went through the build instructions again, and can't find it anywhere

    extra part.jpg
     
  15. MyMakibox

    MyMakibox Member

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    Thanks! The IR sensor is already mounted on the hybrid bracket attached to the hybrid printhead, so I guess no need for this part.
     

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