Twicx's Dual E3D Direct-Drive Extruder

Discussion in 'E3D-v6 and Lite6' started by twicx, Mar 6, 2014.

  1. twicx

    twicx Well-Known Member

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    well I'll definitely do pictures along the way, but right now, i don't think anyone wants to see the rats nest. seriously, it's pretty horrific...
     
  2. twicx

    twicx Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    HOORAY!

    So that's the first test print. All went according to plan. Very little Z wobble with the new motor and coupling and I think the compression-sprung bed also helps.

    [​IMG]

    That's the beginnings of the enclosure print. It's got a good 8 hours to go, cos It's sizable and solid, but it's going well so far! It's going to be fixed/mounted to the front end of the power supply, where all the terminals are, with the other end sticking out a bit to show off the mesh part a bit ;)

    [​IMG]

    Finally, this is the current rats nest. 2 x cooling fans, and lots of wires. The rumba is lifted off the power supply by sitting on a big thick rubber eraser. I just wanted to post this for one important point. This was my first time dealing with mains wires/high voltages. But before I did, I checked with people on here about the safety side of things. This is a VERY temporary solution while I get the enclosure put together, but it does emphasise the whole safety first side of things. I'm using a butchered rackmount compressor to have the mains socket and cutoff switch mounted to something a bit more solid while I print the enclosure, and i think it's a good temporary safety setup, so anyone who's dealing with this type of stuff in the future, it goes without saying, SAFETY FIRST!
     
  3. Eaglezsoar

    Eaglezsoar Administrator

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    It lives! Very good job!
    I also love all the pictures.
     
  4. twicx

    twicx Well-Known Member

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    Cheers! I was really impressed at the difference the new power supply made. Extruder and heatbed heated up MUCH quicker, and the temperatures seem a bit more consistent, so that's a big bonus. I was very very tempted to print the last piece for the extruder before the extruder, but safety first, I can't have all these wires just loose like that. Enclosure, then extruder.
     
  5. Eaglezsoar

    Eaglezsoar Administrator

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    Send some more pictures after you have everything in the enclosure. I would love to see the difference.
     
  6. twicx

    twicx Well-Known Member

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    absolutely! This is just the first part of the enclosure. Next, I'll do a part for the Rumba, and finally, a little cover to go on top of the rumba. They're very simple, nothing fancy, purely functional.
     
  7. twicx

    twicx Well-Known Member

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    right, so I'm again trying to print in ABS. I've made some progress, but not enough.

    Looking about online, I'm printing at 225 degrees, bed at 80, with kapton tape and hairspray, a raft and brim. STILL the edges curl, lift, and eventually separate altogether. Any ideas?
     
  8. Eaglezsoar

    Eaglezsoar Administrator

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    All I can tell you is how I print ABS.
    I do not use Kapton tape, I print directly to glass that has been sprayed with the proper hairspray.
    What is the proper hairspray? There are two that I know works and the first is
    Aquanet Extra Super Hold and comes in a purple can.

    Garnier Fructis Extreme Control #5

    Note that these two are known to work but they have to be what I specified, Garnier must be number 5 not any other number
    likewise the Aquanet has to be exactly as I listed it.
    If you spray your glass with one of these and I recommend that your glass be removed when you spray because you don't want
    hairspray all over your printer, you should find that the ABS will not lift while printing, bed temperature 80c-90c.
     
  9. twicx

    twicx Well-Known Member

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    ah crap! I actually use extreme hold #5 in my hair on a day to day basis, but I literally ran out on friday (but it was an awesome night out, totally worth it).

    I'll get some more tomorrow and try that. ugh!
     
  10. twicx

    twicx Well-Known Member

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    So during a random bout of insomnia last night, I insulated my printbed as per the earlier suggestion, in an effort to try keep it more consistently at 80-90 degrees. I'm going to get the hairspray later (my hair is all dry and flat today - not happy), and give it another go tonight. But this ongoing heatbed/abs problem had me revisiting my options for improved heating. My current printbed uses 4 x 4.7k power resistors, but I would wonder if I dropped them to something like 2k resistors, would it allow me to get higher temperatures since it's less resistance? Similarly, I would wonder if that nichrome resistance wire mentioned in the liquid-heated printbed thread would work on an aluminium bed.

    Any ideas?
     
  11. Chavaquiah

    Chavaquiah Active Member

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    So, you're having a bad hair day... ;)

    Well, we both are. Yesterday my main printer RAMP's heatbed connection went toast... as in literally. Just when I was beginning to print the parts to install the Kraken. Maybe I'll take the opportunity to (finally) replace it with the Duet+Duex4 (I'll need it for the Kraken, anyway). And yes, this happened to the one who suggested using a relay. Cruel irony.

    So, more power to the heatbed... Are you sure that's what you need? More heat might actually make things worse. Except for the first layer (bed adhesion), you don't want plastic to remain very warm, or it will tend to curl towards the hot end. When I print ABS, I start at 110ºC but lower the temp to 80ºC from the second layer on. I use a brim but no raft. For smaller objects, I even turn on the cooling fan - I read somewhere you don't need a fan for ABS, but it just works for me.

    To be honest, I can finally print ABS just fine but only on my second printer, with an acrylic enclosure. On the other printer I can control curling quite well but not shrinkage for taller objects. This leads me to another suggestion: did you try printing a tall skirt around your objects?

    Also, regarding temperature, did you try more than 225ºC. It might be a little on the low side and preventing proper bonding between layers. I'm not sure I understood correctly, but when you say the edges separate, do you mean only from the bed? Or is it from the raft?

    Did you try also withouth a raft? I never had much luck with that. As long as I keep the bed very (and I mean VERY) level, I get much better results with just a brim.
     
  12. twicx

    twicx Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I had a similar learn-the-hard-way with my old RAMPs board, but the new Rumba one is excellent. I'm guessing electronics have come a long way since then haha!

    The heatbed struggles to get above 80, even with the new power supply. I'm hoping the insulation will help, but I'm still in the office. As far as it coming away, the layers seem to be bonding ok, but the whole print curls and comes away, not just individual layers.

    So you reckon my best bet would be 80 degrees, a 6mm brim, hairspray, and around 240(?) degrees for the printhead? The object itself isn't exactly massive. Maybe 90mm x 45mm x 20mm (LxWxH) but it's a case of it not staying stuck to the bed, the edges of the whole print curl/shrink, and eventually the whole thing comes away from the bed.

    Thanks for the help by the way, as you can tell, I'm very new to ABS!
     
  13. Eaglezsoar

    Eaglezsoar Administrator

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    80c should be adequate, but barely, a coating of the hairspray I mentioned before and I print at 230c at the hotend.
    Works for me virtually everytime and it is the hairspray that keeps it from lifting. I have tried the ABS Juice, the gluesticks,
    and I keep coming back to the hairspray. I see no reason that it shouldn't work for you as well.
     
  14. twicx

    twicx Well-Known Member

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    The supermarket didn't have the Fructis extreme hold, so I'm the guinnea pig for another one. I've used it before on my hair and it's stood up to a lot of punishment. Enter... TRESEMME FREEZE HOLD!!!

    [​IMG]

    Results in due course this evening, gotta have some dinner before I do anything, cos ya know, safety first?? :lol:
     
  15. Chavaquiah

    Chavaquiah Active Member

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    Not quite...

    My "experience" is very limited. I tried a few things that did not work, a few that did - and I tend to stick to what works even if that is far from the best solution. For instance, I only tried to print ABS with a starting temperature below 100ºC when I could not get my printer bed over 80ºC. That failed, but could have been due to many other factors. Since I solved the heating problem, I did not try again lower temperatures. I *think* (without really knowing) that 80ºC may be too low to get proper adhesion for the first layer.

    As for the printhead, if you currently have good extrusion and layer bonding, I would either stick with your current temp or increase it ever so slighly. Much more will probably not help with adhesion and may actually increase curling.

    Do make sure you have a well calibrated Z height and that the bed is very level. Lowering the first layer's speed should also help.
     
  16. twicx

    twicx Well-Known Member

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    right. bed is heating, hairspray is on, bed is level, coffee is made.

    Lets see what's what...
     
  17. twicx

    twicx Well-Known Member

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    No luck last night with the printing. Once I put on the glass top, the printbed really struggles to get much hotter than 68-69 degrees. So I've ordered some new power resistors to heat the bed. I was on 4 x 4.7R, I've got 4 x 2.2R and 4 x 1.5R on the way, hopefuly on Thursday.

    Thing is, after all my efforts, I was feeling a bit defeated by all this. There's a 3d print shop in town, I'm going to go get a quote from them on Saturday. I now hate ABS. Give me my dual extruder and let me go back to PLA and printing at 60degrees and 190degrees. PLA/PVA dual combo. That's where the fun is.

    Ugh.
     
  18. Eaglezsoar

    Eaglezsoar Administrator

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    Not Ugh. YuK!
     
  19. twicx

    twicx Well-Known Member

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    Yeah definitely! I'm hoping the new resistors will allow me to get up to a higher temperature. when you factor in the rule of thumb that the glass surface is 5 degrees less than the thermistor reading, it means it's probably closer to 60 than it is to 80! so hopefuly I can get the temperature higher.

    Also going to do some research into some ninja flex. I got a new phone today and it needs a cover!
     
  20. twicx

    twicx Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    Well now this looks promising!
     

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