What am I doing wrong?

Discussion in 'Getting Started' started by wHack, Sep 13, 2019.

  1. wHack

    wHack Well-Known Member

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    I have my machine built and I decided to print some test cubes to check the acceleration and jerk. I printed this one https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:277394. It came out terrible but with artifacts I didn't expect. I printed one on each tool and they all came out the same. I don't know what to do from here as I don't know what could cause this, so I came here to see if anyone could point me in the right direction.

    Here are some pics: IMG_1005-2.jpg IMG_1006-2.jpg IMG_1007-2.jpg IMG_1008-2.jpg
     
  2. Spoon Unit

    Spoon Unit Well-Known Member

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    Looks like an extrusion issue. Things to check:

    • Good filament
    • Retraction settings, if using them
    • Pressure advance, if using it
    • Collets and clips at tube interfaces (tool and titan)
    • Free running of spool
     
  3. Amr

    Amr Well-Known Member

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    I am by no means an expert but the artifacts on both prints are in the exact same locations and look Identical, extrusion issues would be more random in my experience. I would look for cables that are short or something that is snagging like pulling on the cables, or stopping/pushing the hot end in its tracks, very odd behavior I must say.I would re-slice this file again as well.
     
  4. wHack

    wHack Well-Known Member

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    The spool was free.
    I was not using pressure advance yet.
    I re-did the collets and clips on one tool and got the same results.
    The filament is quite old. I have new e3D PLA arriving Monday.
    The gcode was bad it had no retractions but had un-retractions. So... freak slicing error.

    I re-sliced with firmware retractions using
    M207 S4 F3000 Z0.5
    for retractions and things where much improved but still bad in weird ways.
    IMG_1009-2.jpg

    But unlike last time the problems are different on each tool. This is now at a point I can hope it's just old filament that got too hot and humid at different points in it's life. I will see on Monday when I get fresh new PLA that isn't several years old.
     
  5. wHack

    wHack Well-Known Member

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    That was my thought and in the end there was a weird slicing error. Now the problems are more random.
     
  6. Spoon Unit

    Spoon Unit Well-Known Member

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    You've got some bed adhesion issues there too, which won't help while tuning. The issues at least look similar now on all three tools, which pushes the blame away from the filament. If the filament had water ingress, or was poorly made, you'd expect more variation between the filaments. You might be running it too hot. You might want to try a brim with 0 separation in order to increase bed adhesion to remove the warping.

    I currently use the following firmware retraction setting.

    M207 S3.875 R0.85 F5500 T5500 Z0.2

    I know the extra restart looks crazy, but it does result in an immediate start at the new location. YMMV.

    Which slicer are you using? Can you try an alternate slicer?

    Given the similarities between the tools, I'd work with one tool for now.

    What infill settings are you using?
     
  7. wHack

    wHack Well-Known Member

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    I am using PrusaSlicer but I also have Simplify3D. The last pics were sliced with PrusaSlicer. I used 15% infill on PrusaSlicer and left Simplify3D on 12%.

    I tried slicing with Simplify3D and it came out worse, it had basically the same type of problems and some new ones. I tried using your retraction settings and that seemed to make things worse as well. I realized my bed was pretty loose it was even making a tiny rattling sound so I tightened it up and while I was at it I tightened all of my panels. I checked the bowden tubes one more time trying my best to hold them in while sliding the clip into place. They do still allow the tiniest amount of movement but it seems the clips would need to be thicker to prevent that. I adjusted the tension on the extruder from fully un-tightened to tightened down to the point it was noticeably resisting turning. I also tried decreasing my retraction but that also had little effect. The end result was nothing made the prints better and some of it made it worse.
     
    #7 wHack, Sep 14, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2019
  8. wHack

    wHack Well-Known Member

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    I will say this. All of the horizontal ripples line up with the edges of an indentation on one of the sides. So for example where the two dots are on the top there is a slight indention that wraps all the way around the cube.
     
    #8 wHack, Sep 14, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2019
  9. Spoon Unit

    Spoon Unit Well-Known Member

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    It looks like you're using two perimeters. Are you printing the perimeters out-to-in or in-to-out?
    Are you printing an extrusion width identical to the nozzle width, or using a higher value?
    Might be worth photographing all sides to generate more clues.
     
  10. wHack

    wHack Well-Known Member

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    I am using 3 perimeters in-to-out with both slicers.
    In Simplify3D the extrusion width is just set to auto which is .48 for a .40 nozzle.
    In PrusaSlicer I left it with the defaults which is .45 for everything except the bottom layer (.42) and the top layer infill (.40).

    I'll have to come back with more pics as I just had company arrive.
     
  11. wHack

    wHack Well-Known Member

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    So here are some pics of a bad one taken from the corners so you can follow the ripples from side to side. You will notice the layers where the two dots are at the top are under-extruded all the way around the same is true on the bottom but it's harder to see. The layers that contain both the tops of the letters and the bottoms of the circles and the tops of the circles and the bottoms of the letters are particularly under-extruded. Also if you look at the pic with the X and Y you will notice the layers where the bottoms of the top points in each letter are are also under extruded, you can follow that groove around the cube. So I figured if you remove all the indentations it should print fine. So I tried and there is a pic of the result of that mostly printed. But I ran out of opaque plastic part way through so won't be able to print any more opaque parts till tomorrow morning. Anyway that one came out much better however not as perfect as I would like, but well enough to demonstrate that the noise is mostly happening in a manner that is related to the indentations.

    I actually noticed looking at these pics those same layers are under extruded inside the cube as well.

    IMG_1024.JPEG IMG_1025.JPEG IMG_1026.JPEG IMG_1027.JPEG IMG_1023.JPEG
     
  12. Amr

    Amr Well-Known Member

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    what layer height are you printing with?
     
  13. Paul Arden

    Paul Arden Well-Known Member

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    Out of curiosity, how did the pre-sliced benchy that E3D have on the standard RepRapFirmware SD image print?
     
  14. wHack

    wHack Well-Known Member

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    With some minor ripples from under-extrusion on some layers, which is interesting I'll get to that later.

    0.25 the default that e3D had in their Simpify3D profile

    So previously I said I thought the ripples where related to the indentations. I no longer think that. I got new PLA this morning and printed two copies one with the Dots and Letters and one without then when I compared them I notice the ripples line up. I compared the ripples to the bench I had printed and best I could tell it's ripples pretty much lined up as well.

    IMG_1028.jpeg
     
  15. wHack

    wHack Well-Known Member

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    Also as a quick sidenote it was previously suggested I try a lower temp The cube on the right was half printed at 220 and half at 200 it didn't really change things.
     
  16. wHack

    wHack Well-Known Member

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    Scratch that too. I have prints with ripples that don't match at all.
     
  17. wHack

    wHack Well-Known Member

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    I just printed several spool carriers and tried decreasing the speed factor to 50% to see if that would change things it didn't. I tried disabling retraction all together got the same result but with more stringing. I tried adding extra return on retraction which didn't do much if anything. I really don't know what this could be.
     
  18. wHack

    wHack Well-Known Member

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    Tried the blank square at 0.15 layer height and the ripples are less extreme but still there. It isn't apparent from the pic but they appear to be evenly spaced. I will try to get a better picture later.
    IMG_1029.jpeg
     
  19. Krayn

    Krayn Well-Known Member

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    What kinds of speeds are you running at?
     
  20. wHack

    wHack Well-Known Member

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