What am I doing wrong?

Discussion in 'Getting Started' started by wHack, Sep 13, 2019.

  1. wHack

    wHack Well-Known Member

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    That is not the same problem. I get the same errors on each print no matter which tool. You clearly are getting different errors. That is bad by the looks of it.
     
  2. Greg Holloway

    Greg Holloway Administrator
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    Can you pur you print settings in please. That is very weird.
     
  3. Yakeru

    Yakeru Member

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    Here you go ! I uploaded the top of the generated gcode with all the settingd.

    Thanks !

    EDIT : Well, I started everything from scratch in S3D from the GitHub's factory again after noticing some strange differences betwenn my gcodes and the included benchy's and now my prints look good. Sorry for poluting your post wHack, I thought I had the same problem...
    In my case it was a combination of speed/cooling/min layer time/etc...
     

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    #63 Yakeru, Sep 21, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2019
  4. wHack

    wHack Well-Known Member

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    No problem. Glad you got it sorted out.
     
  5. wHack

    wHack Well-Known Member

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    I was hoping to get a couple people to print this file in a light opaque color to verify that the problem is isolated to my machine, and is not my slicing or gcode. I was specifically hoping @Spoon Unit and @Krayn would print it. It is Tool and Temp agnostic so before printing it set your temps for bed and the tool you want to print it on and get up to temp. Then pick up the tool you want to print on then start the print.

    The reason I ask for a light opaque color is the only way to really see it is to be able to see shadows as the difference between layers is too minor to see the only way to really see it is by the shadows so you can't really see it on dark or clear materials.
     

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  6. Krayn

    Krayn Well-Known Member

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    I'll give it a go when I get home from work today.
     
  7. wHack

    wHack Well-Known Member

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  8. Spoon Unit

    Spoon Unit Well-Known Member

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    First three goes all failures. My bed adhesion isn't good enough for that print in PLA at those speeds, even when cut down to 70% speed. Small print. Square corners. The corners are lifting and I'm just aborting. I'll try PETG later on. I might even put the glass plate back on to see if I can get it to stick. The first print I accidentally had set at 120% speed, which was hilarious. Interesting to see the results of a different slicer too. One thing I definitely would change is the fan setting, which I just overrode. 93% at layer 3 is just too much, and was certainly adding to the warp fest with PLA.
     
  9. wHack

    wHack Well-Known Member

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    Wow. It prints on my glass with PLA fine. Sometimes I get a little corner peel but nothing too extreme. I just set my temp to 220 and bed to 60 and go. The corner peel is small enough it's not very noticeable.
     
    #69 wHack, Sep 23, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2019
  10. Spoon Unit

    Spoon Unit Well-Known Member

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    Not particularly pretty results, but they are results, and might be enough. In the end I had to print with Edge (PETG) to get this particular slicing to print well. I actually think you'd get a more reliable print with less warping if you simply rounded the corners at the bottom, sliced with 0 infill, 3 bottom layers and 4 top layers, and used only 2 perimeters. This would generate less internal strain, which should produce less warping, which should allow the whole model to print properly.

    I can now see a real value in the tool agnostic approach .... for test prints. This let's you test a single print and adjust your settings as you go, which you can then feed into better slicer settings, or model-specific profiles.

    I could let the print go without one adjustment. I don't necessarily want to dock where you want to dock. Aside from that I don't think I made any other adjustments.

    My print was on a bed setting of 95 (maybe too hot), with the hotend at 240 for the entire print (almost certainly too hot). I didn't really think about this until the end, as I'm so used to doing this thinking during the slicing now.

    I see some interesting outcomes of the PrusaSlicer. I think this is the least obtrusive seam I've ever seen, even though it's still present.

    Any strangeness you see could be the result of some of the following. Warping (I think due to internal model stresses resulting from the slice), Fan setting (I couldn'nt leave it at 93, turned it to 0 almost the moment it set it, and then set it back up to 25 at the place you see the change on the model, speed, I switched the speed from 80% to 120% about 20 layers from the top, and finally inadequate purging (of the pink PLA that was tested previously).

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  11. wHack

    wHack Well-Known Member

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    So now my question is when lit from the top do you see ripple shadows? I think I can almost see some in your second image.

    PrusaSlicer's seams are one of the big reasons it's hard to use other slicers. That and the way they break configurations into Printer Configs, Filament Configs, and Print Configs, which you can mix and match for a given slice. But that doesn't even touch some of the more advanced stuff it allows you to do.
     
  12. Krayn

    Krayn Well-Known Member

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    I had to use an older spool of PETG but it worked out and I think got the results you did or didn't want. It's about a year and a half old eSUN white PETG not kept fully dry. It is unfortunately the only spool of material that I have that isn't dark, or currently in use in a different machine. I'm curious about buying a spool of new white prusament to see how it looks. I've always wondered about the size tolerance of that brand of material.

    Also Ignore some first layer corner weirdness. I printed this on PEI and it stuck too well. Had to bust out a sharp tool to pry it loose and I might have cut into the first layer a bit.
    RESULTS:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    These last few were taken with a very shallow angle and with my camera flash on. Hopefully this will exaggerate the texture the most.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    It doesn't look this bad in person, it actually looks decent, but you can definitely see some inconsistency.
    Here is something different.
    [​IMG]
    These are boxes printed at 100mm/s on the left, and a much slower one on the right. I believe the right box was 60mm/s but had a 40% speed outer perimeter and it is remarkably smooth. Just throwing more data out there.
     
  13. Spoon Unit

    Spoon Unit Well-Known Member

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    I see some horizontal ripples that result from cornering. I don't see top to bottom ones, though anything like that is likely induced in some part by the warping. Could you post the model so that I can slice it?
     
  14. Spoon Unit

    Spoon Unit Well-Known Member

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    How much slower?
     
  15. Krayn

    Krayn Well-Known Member

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    Left box is 100mm/s on all prusaslicer speed parameters. I basically wanted to see how a 100mm/s print would go plus or minus some time for acceleration. The right box was 60 mm/s on all except a 40% reduction in speed for outer perimeters, so about 24 mm/s for outer walls.
     
  16. Spoon Unit

    Spoon Unit Well-Known Member

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    I've created a similar model, sliced with S3D, and attempted to steer as close to Prusa's output as possible. Funnily I noticed the way it handles the seam is truly trivial - it simply does nothing special. S3D also has a default setting that will reduce speeds for layers that will complete more quickly, and I've left this on as this seems to be a decent idea. Finally I've trimmed the GCODE as per @wHack to make it temperature and tool agnostic, so you'll have to adjust those before starting the print. My current process looks like this:

    Let 'nnn' be the hot end temp you choose for your loaded material and 'm' be the tool you choose

    Heat Bed (DWC)
    Wait For Bed Soak (use your own method - I await the temp to stabilise on my bed-mounted thermistor)
    Set Hotend Temp (Console - M104 Snnn Tm)
    Select Tool (Console - Tm)
    Submit Job while Tool selection completes

    Attached my gcode for you to test. I printed this with the speed set to 100%, I selected nnn=240 for PETG, m=2, and had the bed heater set to 95 (reporting 87.2 at the thermistor)
     

    Attached Files:

  17. wHack

    wHack Well-Known Member

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    I think you misunderstood my issues. My issues were horizontal waves, not vertical ones. I printed your cube, although funny enough I had to turn the fans speed down or else it just poped off after a few layers. I also included the stl of my model.

    So now to my thoughts. Even with your slice and model I get the same horizontal waves they are less extreme but as you can see from the side by side they have pretty much the same pattern. Now from what I have noticed these bands wrap all the way around the cube on the same layers. The same pattern is visible on the inside walls as well. Since the shadow wraps all the way around it seems clear those layers are uniformly under-extruded relative to the layers not in shadows.

    So now to my questions. Did you still have minor waves when you printed your model? Do you also find the waves wrap all the way around? What could be causing this?
    IMG_1038.jpeg
    It's hard to see but this shows that the shadows are the same on all sides if you want a better picture I'll take another.
    IMG_1040.jpeg
    Taken outside and rotated so the shadows are clear.
    IMG_1042.JPG
    Side by side to demonstrate the same wave pattern exists on both prints.
     

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  18. Spoon Unit

    Spoon Unit Well-Known Member

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    I can generate worse waves by having the temperature too low. Try a higher temperature than usual for at least one print. I'm thinking that the problem here is just that the flow rate can be sustained at the temperature, so it's an uneven flow generating the waves.

    I think we're together actually. I was thinking of the direction the waves would be traveling if they were real waves.

    I will say this. I can see real value in trimming the GCODE in a way to allow it to be run at any temperature on any tool. :)
     
  19. wHack

    wHack Well-Known Member

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    So here is my problem with that theory. The same layers are underextruding across different prints and even across different models and slices. I would expect a flow rate issue to vary from print to print and especially across different models and slicers.

    That said I will try a higher temperature when I get back home.
     
  20. wHack

    wHack Well-Known Member

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    Also are you saying you don’t have waves in the same direction that @Krayn and I do? It looks in your pics like you do. The ones in my pics are turned at an angle to the light to make them show. In a lot of angles they aren’t very noticeable.
     

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