Which NEMA17 for Titan (USA)

Discussion in 'Titan' started by miglo, Apr 22, 2016.

  1. miglo

    miglo Member

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    I'm trying to find a comparable Nema17 (42BYGHW609) for my new Titan extruder state side with non-month-long shipping from China.

    Would this work (and about the same size and weight as the recommended 42BYGHW609)?

    • 45Ncm(63.7oz.in) holding torque
    • NEMA 17 bipolar 1.65"x1.65"x1.57" 4-wire
    • 1.8 deg. step angle(200 steps/rev)
    • Rated current 2A & resistance 1.1ohms

    http://www.amazon.com/Stepper-Motor...e=UTF8&qid=1461362284&sr=8-3&keywords=nema+17

    more stats on it:
    http://www.omc-stepperonline.com/3d...er-motor-2a-45ncm64ozin-17hs162004s-p-16.html
     
  2. elmoret

    elmoret Administrator

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    That works, but if you are pushing 1.75mm filament you don't need that much torque. Smaller motors are lighter at a cost of reduced torque, but lighter makes for better/faster printing.
     
  3. miglo

    miglo Member

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    I just ended up getting the 5-pack of the wantais from China. Idk what I'm going to do with the other 4, maybe for more Titans in the future I guess.
     
  4. JesperJuul

    JesperJuul Well-Known Member

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    I dont get why you would use such a heavy stepper. remember that the torque will be miltiplied with 3 because of the gearing.

    Alot of the guys in here have had succes with this tiny pancake stepper that only weight in at around 140gram (@PsyVision : did you ever get to weigh it?). Thomas Salanderer just did a review of the Titan and he used it and had no problems even printing with the volcano hotend., watch the review HERE.

    I choose this stepper for my Titan forfour reasons.
    1. It is still super lightweight, actually not 180g as speced, but only 149grams
    2. It gives over a third extra torque compared with the pancake stepper which seamed like a good deal.
    3. It has a convenient plug, which the tiny pancake stepper doesent
    4. It has a round shaft so no chance of wear to the titans springlever.
    Also the pancake stepper was out of stock in EU warehouse. ;)


    Edit:
    Here is the specifications of the Stepper motors

    Tiny pancake - 13Ncm 20mm
    Manufacturer Part Number 17HS08-1004S
    Motor Type Bipolar Stepper
    Step Angle 1.8°
    Holding Torque 13Ncm(18.4oz.in)
    Rated Current/phase 1.0A
    Phase Resistance 3.5ohms
    Recommended Voltage 12-24V
    Inductance 4.5mH±20%(1KHz)
    Frame Size 42 x 42mm
    Body Length 20mm
    Shaft Diameter Φ5mm
    Shaft Length 20mm
    D-cut Length 16.5mm
    Number of Leads 4
    Lead Length 400mm (WITHOUT PLUG)
    Weight 140g (Actual measured weight 129g)

    Tiny (bit bigger) pancake stepper - 18Ncm 25mm
    Manufacturer Part Number 17HS10-0704S
    Motor Type Bipolar Stepper
    Step Angle 1.8°
    Holding Torque 18Ncm(25.5oz.in)
    Rated Current/phase 0.7A
    Phase Resistance 4.2ohms
    Recommended Voltage 12-24V
    Inductance 5.5mH±20%(1KHz)
    Frame Size 42 x 42mm
    Body Length 25mm
    Shaft Diameter Φ5mm
    Shaft Length 20mm
    Number of Leads 4
    Lead Length 300mm (WITH PLUG)
    Weight 180g (Actual measured weight 149g)
     
    #4 JesperJuul, Apr 26, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2016
    JohnEsc likes this.
  5. Ray

    Ray Well-Known Member

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    @JesperJuul

    I like your thinking on the completely round shaft as my one concern with the Titan was the fact that it used the shaft as its pivot point and depending on the tension on the filament there is likely to be some pressure on it, I did wonder why there wasn't a metal bearing inserted so that went over the shaft to avoid most friction and wear issues.

    One question, should a small flat be made (file?) roughly where the grub screw touches/clamps the shaft? or for this purpose do the grub screws have enough grip on the completely round shafts so as to not cause a problem?

    So at least that has made my mind up, I too am going for the slightly heavier 18Ncm version.
     
  6. JesperJuul

    JesperJuul Well-Known Member

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    The wear issue will probably never be an issue since the lever is made out of some delrin/Igus like wearresistant material, but never the less the round shaft is best and with the round shaft at least you would most sertanly never be able to get wear on the lever.

    You could very easy make a resess for the grubscrew with a dremel or a file, probably not necessary though... aahh what the hell i will do it just to be sure.
     
  7. danzca6

    danzca6 Well-Known Member

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    I'm just using the tiny pancake stepper linked above (20 mm depth). Not having a plug for the wires was a disappointment, but nothing a 4 pin plug and a crimper won't fix. I also needed the extra 5mm of depth savings for the mount I have. The extra 50 g weight savings was nice, but a pretty small difference.

    Question on the topic of the idler lever on the stepper shaft. My motor has the D shaft and I took some 320 grit sandpaper to the edges to make sure they weren't sharp or had any burs. So the shaft is smooth and I don't think it will be too much of an issue with wear. The issue I am having is that mine fits really tight into the lever hole. The first 1/3 or so on either side of the lever hole fits fine. It seems like the seem for the casting made the ID on the lever too small. Anyone else have that issue? I had to really pry at it to get it back off. Seemed like the hole is about .8mm smaller than the shaft using my calipers. I think I will take and try to ream it out tonight a bit to see if I can get it into proper spec. I just hate having to do that. The PTFE guide hole on top of the lever is also really tight getting the piece of PTFE into for use with my 1.75 filament. I'm worried that being too tight might pinch off the ID of the tube enough to restrict filament flow. Maybe my idler lever is just out of spec.
     
  8. JesperJuul

    JesperJuul Well-Known Member

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    Have you weighted your stepper? If not please do, it will help people in their decision making.
    Sounds weird, Thomas Salanderer spoke in hos review about the PTFE not being held tight enough and for the shaft it should be a perfect fit since a tight fit is gonna rob you of torque which sucks!
     
  9. danzca6

    danzca6 Well-Known Member

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    I will weigh it all tonight. I was surprised to hear some advertised weights were more than actual.

    Exactly. On the plus side, I shouldn't have issues with my PTFE coming out because I really have to pull to get it to come back out. On the minus side, my little pancake stepper will loose a lot of its torque with you tight it is at the moment. Hopefully tonight I can get it spinning freely. I might even take some of my son's pinewood derby diamond paste he uses on his axles to polish the stepper motor shaft to get it super smooth.

    Like I said, I think my lever is out of tolerance or at the extreme ends of tolerance for those two holes. Hopefully I can hand ream them into proper spec and be printing with the Titan soon.
     
  10. JesperJuul

    JesperJuul Well-Known Member

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    Me too it seams very odd indeed!
    When you have the lever of the Titan tonight you should try to mount the ptfe tube and manually feed the filament, then you can easily test if the tight fit makes the ptfe squeeze the filament.
     
    #10 JesperJuul, Apr 26, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2016
  11. Sarah Nicholson

    Sarah Nicholson Well-Known Member

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    I have a couple of the 13Ncm steppers, mine weigh 130g including the cable.
     
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  12. JesperJuul

    JesperJuul Well-Known Member

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    Well that concludes it for me.
    The 18Ncm must be the best of the two, since it´s only 20g more and have over a third more torque.
     
    #12 JesperJuul, Apr 26, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2016
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  13. danzca6

    danzca6 Well-Known Member

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    Mine (http://amzn.com/B00PNEQ79Q) is 128g so that is interesting. I wonder where they come up with their weights. @JesperJuul you are correct. If space is not a concern, then the 25mm deep stepper (18Ncm) is the better deal.
     
  14. danzca6

    danzca6 Well-Known Member

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    At least the Titan weighs in at 62g (as I have configured). So that means E3D knows how to use a scale.
     
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  15. danzca6

    danzca6 Well-Known Member

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    Good news. I was able to get the PTFE tube all the way inserted...not easy what so ever. There was some flashing inside the hole that I cleaned out first, but I can't pull it back out by hand at all now. I fed some filament through and it seemed to be ok. No additional friction that I could tell. So I don't think I will have any problem with it backing off like Tom did. I may need pliers to get the tube off someday, but I will chalk this one up as a win. ;)
     
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  16. danzca6

    danzca6 Well-Known Member

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    Ok. Took my 5mm drill bit and I turned that 4.94 mm hole into a solid 5mm hole. Now I can easily slide it on the motor shaft and spin it without the motor moving. I think I will still do a quick wet sanding with a very fine sand paper and polish of the motor shaft just for some added insurance. Friction is not your friend in this instance. Thanks for the advise. I can sleep better tonight.
     
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  17. JohnEsc

    JohnEsc Well-Known Member

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    So @JesperJuul you think it would be fine to use the 18Ncm 25mm pancake stepper even though it doesn't have the D-Cut shaft without any modification to the shaft?... cause that was the only reason holding me back from getting those and I went with the E3D Titan 40Ncm D-shaft motor option. At that price, I wouldn't mind ordering the 18Ncm's.
     
  18. danzca6

    danzca6 Well-Known Member

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    IMHO, a D shaft would be better to make sure the metal gear is as secure as possible. Now as mentioned earlier, you could file or dremel a flat edge toward the back of the shaft of the 18Ncm motor where the set screw contacts it if you want. That would give you the best of both worlds. A flat surface to secure the set screw and a nice round end to protect the idler lever hole. Of course you get the better torque rating and connector plug as well.
     
  19. JesperJuul

    JesperJuul Well-Known Member

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    So we have a means at 129g, interesting indeed. I think the specs could be shipping weigts? - still wierd.

    Doesn´t say "This results in a superbly lightweight package at a mere 90g for the extruder system." so if your messurements are right E3D doesn´t know how to use a scale either. :D

    Great!

    Even more great! Watch not to crush the tube with pliers though.

    It should be fine without modifications if you tighten the grubscrew hard. That said, i made a recess for the grubscrew yesterday with my dremel and it tok about 30secounds.

    You should go for the 18Ncm and save your printhead 130gram YAY!

    ----------------------------------------------------------

    I have made a modifyed titan mount for the hybrid carriages with a recess for the stepper motors plug, but i dont know if it is okay to make it public?

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    #19 JesperJuul, Apr 27, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2016
  20. Ray

    Ray Well-Known Member

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