Wiki Errors and some tips

Discussion in 'BigBox General Chat' started by Paul Seccombe, Mar 3, 2016.

  1. Paul Seccombe

    Paul Seccombe Well-Known Member

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    I found the Wiki OK for the most part. The main area it is lacking is in the Dual setup and config. Find below are some of the things I noticed when doing my build. Several of these have already been fixed by Greg but others haven't . I also include a few tips. Maybe this thread can be used to combine all the errors and tips in one place?

    ====================================================================
    Part Prep:
    Drawing - Y-axis rear
    Item 8 - not in bearing box, in Little Motion box (this problem is on a few drawings)

    It would be useful to have a simple drawing of all of the bearings used with their basic dimensions so they can be identified.

    Y-Axis Front Brackets:
    Bottom M4 fixing with round hole: Tip - to get nut in don't try to push it in like all of the others. Drop it in, then use the end of an allen key to level it. Then use a fixing from the rear to pull it in.

    Print cooling fan:
    For Dual - one fan in fan/lcd box, the other was in the dual extruder box.

    Spool carrier clamps:
    1 bearing in bearing box
    1 bearing in dual extruder box. Maybe a note about extra parts for dual all being in the dual extruder box?

    Extruder:
    Drawing lists location of bowden coupling as as "See docs" - they are in the extruder box.

    Z-bed assy:

    M3x16 too short, used M3x18 (Bag 8)
    M3x20 says Bag 8 it should be 9


    Base assy:
    When fitting the bars underneath, it would help if the image was flipped to be the same view as you see as you are fitting the barbs.
    The location of the barbs is not mentioned (Bag 5 for the M3, Bag 4 for the M2.5, Bag 2 for the M2)
    Note that M2.5 barbs are too loose and should be superglued in.


    LCD assy:
    No mention of fitting the top and bottom parts.


    Y-Axis Rear Bar Assy:
    Drawing labelled "X-Axis Assy"
    Nylon washers in bag 16 not 13.

    Z bed assy:
    Screwed corners - calls for "Lock screws" not lock washers.

    X-axis cable conduits
    Drg 31/37 - M3 hex nuts in bag 5 not 3.

    X-axis drag chain:
    Doesn't say to connect the wiring to the motor.

    Frame top:
    Drg 35/36
    Micro barbs in bag 5 not 2 - but I would remove the drawing completely and just list the parts needed. It looks like you fit the barbs under the part with screws.

    Support holding brackets:
    Drg 27/36 Bearings in extruder box not bearing box.


    A/C IEC socket (fitting into rear cover)
    Add a note that the IEC back cover will only fit on one way.

    Printhead wiring:
    Sleeving is 1.5m long not 1.7m

    Add a note that one way to fit the sleeving is "as a caterpillar moves" pushing the cable through so the sleeving gathers up the sleeving, then gripping the cable inside at the front of the gather and letting the gather relax.....and repeat.

    X-axis cable conduit:
    M3 Hex in bag 5 not 3.


    Rear spline:
    No indication of how big a loop of tubing/cabling you should have, just that it shouldn't be tight when the head is furthest away. Maybe give a rough height dimension above the top of the printer - mine in about 250mm and maybe too tall (but I figured better this than too short).

    Fitting the base:
    Tip for assembling the base and wiring. With the unit on its side, angle the base as per the attached photo and secure it with some string. This gives full access, doesn't take up too much bench space and leaves your hands free,
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]




    Wiring:
    Heated bed temperature connects to THB not HB.
    IR sensor cable - from the thumbnail it looks like the yellow wire is the one on the left (which is as I incorrectly connected it). Only when you view the full image do you see the wires are actually crossed and the red wire is the left hand one (that's my excuse anyway :) )

    First print:
    Shouldn't there be a reminder here to tighten the nozzle some more when the nozzle is at temperature for the first time?
     
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  2. Mike Kelly

    Mike Kelly Volunteer

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    Forwarded this along. They've got a whole list of stuff to correct :)
     
  3. Archania

    Archania Well-Known Member

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    Heat up the end to like 245. Let it sit there for a minute to equalize the temp of the nozzle and the block. Then tighten.
     
  4. Chase.Wichert

    Chase.Wichert Well-Known Member

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    If you got the raspberry PI upgrade, the panel mount usb connector is NOT included with your BB.
     
  5. mike01hu

    mike01hu Well-Known Member

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    Cable available here:

    Mike
     
  6. Chase.Wichert

    Chase.Wichert Well-Known Member

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    Well, I am saying that in the wiki it doesn't make reference to if you ordered the raspberry pi upgrade, to skip the step to install the usb panel mount connector, because they don't include it since you use the included ethernet connector.
     
  7. Spoon Unit

    Spoon Unit Well-Known Member

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    I really want to print to this thing over Wifi, not Ethernet. I feel there'll be some pain connecting up a Wifi USB module (which I have lying around somewhere). I'm thinking drivers and DHCP and headaches, particularly with the board already in there. Fortunately I have another Pi 2 on the table I could test software on. Thinking about it, I don't recall plugging in an SD card yet to the one in the printer. There were two in the box, one with a Strawberry on and another unmarked one. I suspect initial prints will come from the unmarked on via the front mounted SD card slot. Perhaps I'll hold off on screwing up the base entirely.
     
  8. theTroll527

    theTroll527 Well-Known Member

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    Why not just get a Raspberry Pi 3?
     
  9. Henry feldman

    Henry feldman Well-Known Member

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    Mine was ordered today, and will ship tomorrow from Adafruit!, but I have ethernet right over my work area, for both the CNC and 3D printers
     
  10. amdbuilder

    amdbuilder Active Member

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    Migrating my manual feedback from Google+ for those interested. Some of these items may have been addressed already. I'm going to be lazy and just copy/paste instead of reading/refining like I know I should be doing. I've also included some newer feedback at the end based on the last few days of building.

    ____________________



    Does anyone know what motor should be used for the Y-Axis Motor Mount? The information in the build guide is conflicting....

    Do you use the 0.9 degree/step motor or the 1.8 degree/step motor?
    no plus ones

    Also on the IR Sensor Bracket item 6 notes m2.5 square nuts in bag 4. There are only the hex nuts in bag 4. Did I miss something or did someone forget to update the manual....

    +Gregory Holloway I would argue with a few tweaks the manual could be more clear. Just off the top of my head (that should be asleep):

    - Remove the model from part list. It didn't match causing some confusion, just leave the 0.9 Deg bit. Eliminate some second guessing on that front.
    - Add more pictures of the completed assembly. A side view would show the length quickly confirming the right motor choice.

    In regards to the Square Nuts, I will give you credit for making note of it. Granted, I'm also going to remove that credit as I would argue it should be noted on the page under the exploded parts in an alert box.

    Sure, it might only apply to backers, however I have a limited amount of screen space on my laptop. I've already got enough hunting for the right screws in bags containing 2+ sizes and/or other little parts.

    It would be super helpful to have a printable bag breakdown list for example. List the bags containing multiple items, and put pictures of each item in the bag so you can compare. Naturally, printable so we can save some tab hopping on the computer.

    OH, and on the more picture front... Add the actual IR Sensor! I was guessing I had the right part, because there isn't a good visual reference. Technically, I am still guessing until I power things up and confirm I got the right part, but that's another story.

    Oh, and on the Spool Holder Clamps do the two printed parts go together (aka I have some filing to do) or should there be some space between them? That would be another noteworthy item, as it seems tight fits are ok in some cases, and not in other cases?

    I've also got some serious bones to pick with the Dual Extruder assembly order, but that can wait until after sleep and I actually finish wrangling it together.

    Anyways, sorry for the rant my inner designer just had to get some of that feedback out.

    Sorry, one more gripe... Why isn't the part list sorted by bag number? I'm playing musical bags when having the two parts grouped would indicate two parts from the same bag. Perhaps saving some time.

    Yea, sorry again!

    ____________________



    Keeping with the trend, more manual observations for those still waiting on boxes of goodies.

    Frame - The pictures don't illustrate the correct panel alignment very well, however after realizing the Pi logo was on the right outside panel things kind of clicked a little better. I would suggest adding a note about that to help clarify the panel positioning.

    The screws for use with the nut traps are in bag 8. I'm guessing the manual is assuming we've memorized some of the part locations. It would be nice to see the bag numbers carried through the entire manual to make life easier.

    One of the frame pictures was duplicated and simply notes "caption" I think you could remove that one and use the above, or another angle could be nice?

    A suggestion that might help those of us with harder heads and "better" ideas. In the case of the front frame you note to only put a few nut traps. Might I suggest noting why to avoid attempts at "out thinking"? In the case of the front frame it helps when putting in the motion system.

    Y-Axis Rear-Bar Assembly - The bag number for the nylon washers is incorrect. I forgot write down the correct bag number, but was able to find them quickly by looking at the other bags.

    Y-Axis Rear-Bar Installation - Can you put the bag numbers for those of us with shorter memories/frequent interruptions.

    Y-Axis Endstop - The bag number is missing, which caused some problems finding the right bolt.

    Y-Axis Belts - There wasn't enough brain power left to put these in today, at least on my printer. Anyone have any tips/tricks for making this process less painful?

    ____________________



    There is also more manual ranting sorry +Gregory Holloway. I did see the ir sensor notes get address, thanks! You might want to add the note regarding spool carrier clamp (assuming the printed parts should fit together)

    The idler spring was annoyingly hard to insert. I almost wonder if the build order could change some to make that easier. Granted that could also be the nature of the beast.

    The x-axis assembly there isn't any note of tightening the screws to secure the rods. Given some things you do and some you don't the lack of comment seems puzzling. I guessed tighten then, but it wouldn't hurt to confirm things.

    Spool Carrier - Why not do this step when you build the outer parts? They are small and you put the nuts/bolts in earlier. Save a little work and put them in with the bracket?

    Z-Axis Bed Assembly - Talk about directions from the riddler. We both read the directions and consulted the pictures multiple times, and it's unclear if we got it right. I feel like the pictures need to be updated or something to better reflect the correct orientations. You could also note there are four corner nut traps up front, so just take out all the parts and repeat the build in order. Easier than doing one and then realizing you need to take out all the other parts, granted if you read ahead I guess you would know that already.

    Base Assembly - The suggestion to use a hammer sounds fine for plywood frames, but for acrylic I cringed at the concept. Might I recommend using one of the small nuts from the stretch bag to pull the microbarbs into place instead? Less risk of damaging things.

    Rumba / PT100 Amps - Shouldn't there be a note about ESD?

    Nut traps - Yes you NEED superglue!
    ____________________



    I've identified the source of my problems with the Y-Axis Rear-Bar Installation. The locking washers are preventing the bottom screws from reaching the nut - even slightly flattened! The top screws are naturally fine...

    So my question for +Gregory Holloway
    1. Are the M4 16mm Screws noted in the manual correct?
    2. Can the locking washers be left out
    3. Should I keep the washers and use different screws (if so which ones?).

    ____________________



    The cabling still bothers me some, as my inner wiring perfectionist knows I can do better. A few notes off the top of my head:

    - I don't agree with the decision to route all of the cables through the brace above the rumba. I feel like some of the cables should have been routed to the sides. This would give them a more direct route to their destination.

    - A large portion of the cables do run through the middle / under the rumba. I really should have pulled the rumba and routed them under it properly. Stuffing them under with the rumba mounted is less than ideal. They bunch up under the rumba making them more difficult to move around later.

    - I wish the fan and endstop cables came twisted or glued together. It would make routing the cables easier. I did twist some, but my fingers have ultimately determined it's not worth the effort at this time.

    - Do take a silver sharpie and label the cable ends! Just adding a simple X or Y on the cable ends would be helpful in getting them to the right place. Once you put the bottom on it's rather annoying to figure out the cables. I'm still questioning if I got two of my steppers reversed.

    - LCD Cables - If you look at the labeling under the LCD you will notice the EXP1 connector is on the RIGHT side of the LCD when mounted. On the rumba it's on the LEFT side. This means if you cross the cables when you hook them up your LCD should work on the first attempt (as mine did).

    - Zip Ties - There is no such thing as too many zip ties (famous last words). This is also coming from a guy that buys them by the thousand. I've been going very easy with them, in case I need to pull things apart later.

    ____________________
    ____________________
    ____________________
    ____________________


    ----- BigBox Parts Preparation -----

    Pro & Lite X-Carriage - It would be helpful to know more about proper heatsink fitting, how much force (if any) should be required to insert the heatsink?

    Dual X-Carriage - It should be a little better noted to test fit the heatsink. Heck, just add a picture of the properly fit heatsink with a note to read the Pro docs. It's harder to skim past this step.

    Outer Spools Rear (Left & Right) - Do yourself a favor and just take out the piece of acrylic/wood that fits between the spool holders, and just install it now. There is no point in delaying this step as you already put the screws that hold it in.

    Spool Carrier Clamp - It should be better documented how well these two pieces should fit together. In my case some filing was required before the two printed parts would actually go together.

    ----- BigBox Sub-assemblies -----

    Single / Dual Extruder - I would recommend running a drill bit through the hole before installing Item 14, to ensure the bowen will fit nicely. You can also do the same with the Extruder Idler, assuming the bowen should go that far into the extruder. The spring assembly should be compressed first to make it easier to install later. It's a pain either way!

    The idler(s) should be installed BEFORE attaching the motors. They will not fit in before adding the motors (at least in my case).

    There is not a scrap of filament provided (or I didn't get one) so you may need to break off some filament to make your own scrap.

    Base Assembly - Don't hammer in the barbs unless you have a wood frame. You are just asking for problems, use a small screw from Bag 8. I'm not sure if the printer comes with enough barbs for the OctoPrint, if so this would be an ideal time to install them. If the OctoPrint kit includes more barbs just ignore this - I haven't finished so I don't know how many spares I got.

    Suggested Order Change

    - Install Spool Holder Brackets
    - Install Cable Spine (Excluding Large Spline)
    - Install Exhaust Fan
    - Install Spool Inner Brackets
    - Install Z-Axis Lower Rod Brackets
    - Install A/C IEC Socket
    - Install Electronics Hatch Barbs (bag 5)

    These items should all be easier to install before the frame is assembled, as you will have greater/quicker access to them. You aren't going to be able to put the Big Box flat on it's back, however excluding the Large Spline it shouldn't be too bad if you do need to put it on it's back. I do have some comments on some of those parts below (as i'm reviewing the manual in order to jog my memory)

    Main Frame - I think this is noted earlier, but you should call attention to the Pi logo engraved on the Right Panel outside face. This will help identify the correct panel alignment, and save some time.

    Recommended Order Change After Main Frame

    - Install Large Spline
    - Install USB/RJ45
    - Install the X-Axis Cable Conduits

    These items should install a little easier at this point in time, as with the items moved to before the frame assembly. Again it's a question of increased access, and there isn't much point to delaying their installation.

    ----- BigBox Main Assemblies -----

    Y-Axis Rear-Bar Assembly - I would suggest temporarily tightening the grubs for easier installation into the frame, and then loosening them again until the Commissioning.

    Y-Axis Rear-Bar Installation - After wasting more time than I care to admit you should triple check all the screws caught their nuts. You can always loosen them again until the commissioning phase. You will save hours if the nuts didn't catch the first time.

    X-Axis / Y-Axis Installation - Once again you should triple check the screws to make sure they caught their nuts. Again more hours than I care to admit wasted because those nuts fell down or what not. One trick would be using the rods to hold in the nuts, as they do slide back some.

    X-Axis Motor Installation - There should be a picture of the 20T GT2 for more visual individuals. A photo is worth a thousand words after all ;)

    Y-Axis Belts - The idlers can be a tight fit in the brackets, so you might want to double check you caught the nut when installing these. Once again more hours wasted than needed.

    X-Axis Drag Chain - A small screwdriver/allen key can be helpful in pushing the wires through the drag chain. I haven't tested this, but you may be able to feed the other end of the motor cable and end stop sensor through the chain at the same time. You will need to pull the excess motor cable through the chain, but might save time in the long run.

    Electrical tape works as a decent alternative to the heatshrink tubing, if you realize you lack any easy sources of heat, and are too deep in the process to stop and get something. I also determined a hair dryer didn't provide enough heat to really shrink the tubing, so you likely need a proper heat gun or lighter. (*Yes, I need to fix the lack of a lighter - I just moved so I have an excuse at least).

    Frame Top - In the case of the acrylic I would recommend installing it on the frame, before putting in the microbarbs/printed piece. This way you don't need to move both pieces of acrylic at the same time, so less stress/breaking potential.

    Cable Spline - I would recommend testing the holes for the bowen tubing, before installing the pieces. You will likely need to drill them slightly so you can fit the tube in later. At least this was the case for me.

    A/C IEC Socket - I would recommend adding a picture of the wiring with a note to double check the connections. It never hurts to double check things where electricity is involved. Plus getting at the connections later will be a little annoying.

    USB - I'm a little surprised they don't recommend adding nuts. I found this connection to be difficult to install, and wonder if it's plastic will wear out over time. I would feel a little better if there were nuts helping to hold it to the frame. The same might be true for the RJ45 jack - I don't have the OctoPrint upgrade at this time to confirm.

    The Rear Spine - There should be more information on how far the tube needs to go into the printhead. As previously noted this hole may need to be widened with a drill, or at least cleaned out.

    It would be nice to have an approximate length of the braided sleeve in feet/inches for those of us not working in metric regularly. I also found the size (diameter) of the sleeving excessively large for the Y-Axis motor cable. A smaller cable would be nice for a cleaner look.

    Prepping The Wiring - Instead of the high risk operation of cutting the braided sleeving with wires inside, they should be measured and cut in advance of inserting the wires.

    Fitting The Base - It should be better noted to flip the BigBox on it's LEFT side. This puts the power supply at the bottom, making the wiring process easier, but also reducing the weight you need to hold. The string approach noted earlier is a nice touch, in my case I could lean the panel against my legs while wiring it up.

    Tuning The Stepper Drivers - It should be noted the BigBox can be turned off and a normal screwdriver used to tune the steppers, instead of using the Ceramic Screwdriver noted. I think someone else noted those with an existing 3d printer could print a screwdriver as an alternative.

    If you turn all the steppers at the same time to the 7'o clock position, you might find you got them all within the range in one pass. You can always tweak any that are still over/under in additional passes. Matching the steppers I was able to get them all in two passes instead of one at time.

    Spool Carrier - The rod length should be noted!

    Ooze Wiper & Dump Bucket - There needs to be more tips on installing the rubber, and how important is it the rubber be all the way in the grove?

    ____________________
    ____________________

    I should have more after I tackle Commissioning tomorrow (er, later today). Hope this all helps!

    Patrick
     
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  11. Spoon Unit

    Spoon Unit Well-Known Member

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    I have one, so I can swap it if needed, but there are other fish to fry initially. Serendipitously (or by outstanding design), the Pi is relatively easy to access and replace.
     
  12. Mike Kelly

    Mike Kelly Volunteer

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    I followed Tom's guide for setting up the WiPi, pretty easy once you adjust the file needed.
     
  13. Spoon Unit

    Spoon Unit Well-Known Member

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    Got a link for that Mike? You saying you have a 3 installed and running over WiFi?
     
  14. Mike Kelly

    Mike Kelly Volunteer

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    #14 Mike Kelly, Mar 5, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2016
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  15. Chase.Wichert

    Chase.Wichert Well-Known Member

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    Another thing that someone ran into with the wiki, was with the dual extruder bowden coupling assembly, it isn't quite clear if you just jump to the dual extruder instructions and skip the single. Maybe a note here, http://wiki.e3d-online.com/wiki/BigBox_Printer_Sub-assemblies#Dual_Extruder that says refer to single extruder sub-assembly instructions, above, for bowden coupling installation. Or maybe add a line that says assemble bowden coupling pieces, and press into Extruder Cable Bracket.
     
  16. Mike Kelly

    Mike Kelly Volunteer

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    I should add to this that user accounts are now being accepted for the Wiki for those of you wanting to contibute changes and improvements
     
  17. Chase.Wichert

    Chase.Wichert Well-Known Member

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    I'd be interested in contributing
     
  18. Mike Kelly

    Mike Kelly Volunteer

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  19. Chase.Wichert

    Chase.Wichert Well-Known Member

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  20. Dr Jeep

    Dr Jeep Well-Known Member

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    Couple of small errors on the wiki in the octopi setup. In at least one place the Baudrate has a missing digit and the screenshot for downloading eeprom Marlin editor show the downloading of repetier editor.
     

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